The Sims Family Murders, and a Glimpse in the Mirrored Abyss

Posted: August 13, 2015 in Uncategorized

“He who fights monsters should take care that he too does not become a monster—for when you look long into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you.”

I ended a recent blog post with a snarky reference to this quote,
but as it turns out there’s nothing humorous about Friedrich Nietzsche’s warning at all.

Investigators at the Sims crime scene

Investigators at the Sims crime scene

If I may set the scene, last weekend I was scheduled to catch a 7am train out of the city to attend a friend’s nuptials in DC. I got into bed with my laptop around midnight,
intending to spend a few minutes online before lights out;
with five hours sleep I might not lead the Macarena at the reception but at least I wouldn’t pass out face-first into a plateful of wedding cake.

There are a spate of 1960s-era unsolved family murders with which I have an abiding fascination:

The Boles Family in Crestline, California (1965)
The Bricca Family in Cincinnati, Ohio (1966)
The Sims Family in Tallahassee, Florida (1966)
The Robinson Family in Good Hart, Michigan (1968)
The Arellano Family in Loma Alta, Texas (1968)
The Dumler Family in Cincinnati, Ohio (1969)

Although I’m always interested in new developments in these cases I disabled my Google alert for the Sims murders—the erroneous notifications about the Sims computer game cluttered my inbox.
Instead I periodically check the web for updates,
and with a few minutes to kill decided to conduct another quick search before drifting off to sleep.
The facts of the crime, which occurred in Tallahassee on October 22nd, 1966, are as follows:

Dr. Robert Sims

Dr. Robert Sims

Dr. Robert Wilson Sims, age forty-two, was the Director of Data Processing for the Florida Department of Education;
his wife, often described in newspaper accounts as “attractive, auburn-haired Helen Sims,”
age thirty-four, was a former
secretary at Tallahassee’s First Baptist Church.
On this quiet Saturday evening the couple
and their youngest daughter Joy Lynn,
age twelve, were home in their modest brick ranch house
at 641 Muriel Court Drive; their two older daughters Virginia
and Judith Ann were babysitting nearby.
The Sims were a close-knit, religious family;
even under the microscope of a homicide investigation
detectives never unearth any improprieties in the Sims’ lives or background.

“These are highly respected people. There are just not any finer folks in town.” Leon County Deputy William P. Smith, The Chicago Tribune, October 25th, 1966

At approximately 11:15pm the Sims’ seventeen-year-old daughter Virginia (misidentified in early newspaper articles as Norma Jeanette, shortened in subsequent accounts to Jenny or Jeannie) arrived home to an abattoir;
her parents and little sister had been herded into the master bedroom and slaughtered.

Dr. Sims, attired in trousers, a sport shirt, socks and shoes,
was lying atop a flowered bedspread on the couple’s king-sized bed; he’d been shot once in the head. His wife and daughter lay at an angle on the room’s beige carpet.
Mrs. Sims, SIMSHELENbarefoot in pink slacks and a blouse,
had been shot three times,
twice in the head and once in the leg;
Joy Lynn, clad in her nightie,
had been shot once in the head and stabbed six times in the torso
with a large hunting or butcher knife.
All three Sims had been trussed and gagged with household items—variously described as neckties, socks, hosiery or lingerie—and both Dr. and Mrs. Sims had been blindfolded. (Some newspaper accounts state Joy Lynn was blindfolded as well, others imply that she was not.)

“Something terrible has happened, please come.” Virginia Sims’ plea to the ambulance service, The Anniston Star, October 24th, 1966

When Virginia entered the master bedroom both Dr. and Mrs. Sims were still alive, although barely. She immediately called the Bevis Funeral Home
for an ambulance, as was the (distinctly odd) custom in
Tallahassee at the time; proprietor Russell Bevis raced
to the scene with his son Rocky, then age sixteen.
Dr. Sims expired shortly after the Bevises’ arrival, but Mrs. Sims was transported to the hospital where she was kept under guard. Little Joy Lynn had been killed instantly.

“There was money in the house. It had not been touched.” Leon County Sheriff William Joyce, The Holland Evening Sentinel, October 24th, 1966

SIMSJOYLYNNThere was no evidence of forced entry at the Sims residence
and nothing of value was missing—small sums of money were visible on the dresser and an expensive coin collection lay intact in a bedroom drawer.
The only neighbor who’d noticed anything amiss was a Muriel Court resident
who’d heard high-pitched screams at 10:45pm—attributing the clamor to frolicking children, the neighbor failed to contact police.

“Not so much as an ashtray had been moved as far as we can tell.” Leon County Sheriff William Joyce, Tucson Daily Citizen, October 24th, 1966

The first lawman on the scene was Larry Campbell, an investigator
whose fifty-year career in Florida law enforcement
would culminate in several terms as Leon County Sheriff;
at the time of the Sims murders
he was the twenty-four year old lead detective on the case. As was par for the course in the 1960s, Campbell failed to secure the crime scene—nearly a thousand people tromped through the Sims home in the hours after the family was slain.

“They went in and made coffee. It was probably textbook ‘what you shouldn’t do.’” Rocky Bevis, first responder at the Sims murder scene. WCTV Tallahassee, April 28th, 2015

At Tallahassee Memorial hospital Mrs. Sims’ prognosis was grim—one of the bullets in her brain was too deeply lodged SIMSJUDITHANNATHOMEto be extracted and she was placed on a respirator. As armed guards stood deathwatch local businesses did a brisk business in security accoutrements
and guns of every caliber; the seemingly random slaughter of the respectable,
well-liked family incited a community panic.
Though the sentiment may be trite, the substance is true:
to this day, many natives cite the Sims murders as the moment the city of Tallahassee lost its innocence.

“We woke up one morning and all of the sudden we were in an evil world.” Current Leon County Sheriff Mike Wood describing the effect of the Sims murders on the community. WCTV Tallahassee, April 28th, 2015

Mrs. Sims lingered for nine days, never regaining consciousness; on October 31st, Halloween, she joined her husband and youngest daughter in death.
Unsettled by the killer in their midst,
city officials took the unprecedented step of canceling
trick-or-treating; in the aftermath of the Sims murders the holiday’s faux-fright was superfluous—genuine terror stalked the streets of Florida’s capital.

“This Halloween 1966, the night of spooks and goblins, will be one which the children and grown people of Tallahassee will not soon forget . . . one when the game of fear became a stark reality.” Reporter James Williams, Tuscaloosa News, October 30th, 1966

The investigation slogged onward. The Sims’ social circle was interviewed,
nearby woodlands searched and a pond behind the home drained—-nothing of evidentiary value was discovered. Grasping at straws,
detectives tracked down patrons
who’d borrowed In Cold Blood  from Tallahassee library,
theorizing the crime may have been inspired
by Capote’s masterpiece. All avenues of investigation, both literary and conventional, led nowhere.

“Everyone was identified and checked out including three men from Wyoming who had been here to see Sims, the piano tuner, the Fuller Brush man and the maid.” Leon County Sheriff William Joyce, The Anniston Star, November 12th, 1969

Crime scene model illustrating the position of the Sims' bodies

Crime scene model illustrating the position of the Sims’ bodies

The murders had occurred at a particularly inopportune juncture; an FSU football game and the North Florida Fair had summoned hundreds of strangers into the community in the hours before the crime.
This profusion of potential suspects slowed the investigation but local gossips—untroubled by such technicalities as evidence or probable cause—had already settled on a scapegoat of the homegrown variety:
Helen Sims’ former boss, Pastor Cecil Albert Roberts.
Mrs. Sims had resigned from her job at First Baptist only days before the crime
and C.A., as he was known, had a reputation as a ladies’ man.
To town gossipmongers the Pastor’s roving eye and the timing of Mrs. Sims’ resignation seemed portentous; when Pastor Roberts had the audacity to call Mrs. Sims by her first name while officiating at her memorial service the rumor mill began to churn apace.

Pastor C.A. Roberts

Pastor C.A. Roberts

C.A. Roberts, however, had an airtight alibi for the night of the murders:
as the FSU team chaplain his appearances in the game’s film coverage
were myriad—detectives calculated the Pastor lacked time between cameos to slip away and commit the crime.
Furthermore, investigators were unable to unearth any evidence
of an affair between the Pastor and Mrs. Sims—-by all accounts Dr. and Mrs. Sims were inseparable.
Not so easily cowed by facts and the laws of physics,
local busybodies continued their campaign of slander; Pastor Roberts soon resigned and left town, his career in shambles.

“There’s no doubt in my mind that C.A. had nothing whatsoever to do with (the murders); he was just a victim of circumstances and his own foibles.” Leon County Sheriff Larry Campbell, The Tallahassee Democrat, October 23rd, 2011

The day after the murders a woman attempting to place a phone call on a party line accidentally heard snippets of a stranger’s conversation.
“Mother, I have just done a horrible thing; I have killed three persons,”
a young man intoned with oddly precise diction.
With the rudimentary technology of the time the telephone company could only ascertain the call had originated
from one of two hundred lines in Brevard County, approximately a five hour drive south of Tallahassee.
Although some media accounts claim the inadvertent eavesdropper also heard information known only to the slayer
this detail is unconfirmed,
and the crossed party line is rarely mentioned in contemporary accounts of the crime.

“We’ve ruled out robbery. I’ve definitely ruled out actual robbery and sexual assault.” Leon County Sheriff William Joyce, St Petersburg Times, October 26th, 1966

Dr. Sims body removed

Dr. Sims’ body removed

A schism began to form within the investigation: Sheriff William Joyce was adamant lustmord played no role in the murders, but Ed Yarborough, director of the Florida Sheriff’s Bureau (now the FDLE) disagreed, telling The Palm Beach Post  the crime was “the work of a sexually deranged person, a sex maniac.” Interestingly, Leon County investigators maintained the murders lacked a sexual element for decades,
yet a 2006 Ocala Star Banner  article revealed Joy Lynn’s panties had been pulled down and (unspecified) indicia of molestation were present.
The reason for this discrepancy is unknown.

“There are many types of perverts.” Ed Yarborough, Florida Sheriff’s Bureau, The Palm Beach Post, October 25th, 1966

SIMSMOBILECRIMESCENEUNITWith financial and romantic entanglements eliminated as motives the investigation into the Sims’ murders stalled. The last investigatory lead of note occurred in 1980, when Leon County Sheriff Ken Katsaris announced he was reopening the case; acting on a tip, Sheriff Katsaris learned a death row convict in another state had Florida ties—the man was known to the Sims and the murder(s) for which he’d been condemned were akin to the Sims murders. “I saw similarities in the crimes, both of them seemingly senseless, without motive,” he told a reporter from The Sarasota Herald Tribune. The Sheriff declined to name the convict in question or give any other identifying information, however, and the lead apparently came to naught.
The Sims’ murders remain unsolved, a blight on the reputation of Tallahassee law enforcement.

“It still kind of depresses me after all these years; I didn’t feel like myself all day.” Tallahassee Police Chief Robert Maige upon revisiting the crime scene, Sarasota Herald Tribune, October 29th, 1973

And here the verifiable history of the Sims murder investigation ends,
yet our blog post is just beginning:
Come, dance with me on the edge of a libel lawsuit; I promise I won’t let you fall.

In many ways the Sims murders are incestuously intertwined with the career of Larry Campbell, first detective on the scene and subsequent long-term sheriff of Leon County.
A strident voice in all facets of Sims media coverage during his reign,
Sheriff Campbell claimed to be haunted by the murders and often cited his failure to bring the perpetrator(s) to justice as his greatest regret after five decades in law enforcement.

“I’ve seen some terrible things in 45-plus years of law enforcement, but I can see Joy’s eyes as clear today as I sit here talking to you.” Leon County Sheriff Larry Campbell, Sarasota Herald Tribune, November 13th, 2006

Though he lacked sufficient evidence for an arrest, over the years Sheriff Campbell made no secret of the fact he’d developed two prime suspects in the crime:
a local teenaged couple I shall not identify for reasons both legal and moral.
The Female Suspect, then nineteen, was the daughter of a janitor at Florida State University.
The then twenty-year old Male Suspect, son of a famous FSU criminology professor, dwelt on the street behind the Sims home.

The placement of Male Suspect’s residence is significant as investigators had long theorized
the assailants approached from the woods behind the Sims house—rear entry would explain why Muriel Court neighbors saw neither visitors nor unfamiliar vehicles the night the Sims were slain.
The existence of two perpetrators also comports with initial theories:
the identical granny knots which bound the victims were tied so tightly
investigators doubted the family had tied each other at gun point.
(Although it’s certainly possible the family was forced to bind each other and a lone assailant then retied the knots à la EAR/ONS.)

“There is no apparent reason why the Simses should have been targeted. It was a very middle-class, church-going family.” Henry Cabbage, Tallahassee author and historian, The Tallahassee Democrat, March 11th, 2015

SIMSHOMECROPPEDAccording to neighborhood scuttlebutt the suspect couple were odd,
although the depth
of this purported
deviance varies upon
the telling.
The pair reportedly
had an interest
in funeral homes
and necrophilia,
and Female Suspect
was said to
have closely followed
Sheriff Campbell
as he investigated the crime, dogging his every move.

“She had a fascination with death and funeral homes.” First responder Rocky Bevis describing Female Suspect, WCTV Tallahassee, April 28th, 2015

In Sheriff Campbell’s estimation the motive for the Sims murders was paraphilia—Male Suspect was sexually fixated on Joy Lynn, the Sheriff believed.
Several posters on various Tallahassee- and crime-related message boards
have further claimed Male Suspect was on the cusp of being arrested for molesting Joy Lynn shortly before the crime,
but these allegations lack supporting evidence
and no mention of prior sexual abuse is extant in any legitimate news source.

“[The circumstances of the crime] would lead you to believe it was pretty well thought out; it wasn’t something spur of the moment where someone said ‘Let’s go kill three people.'” First responder Rocky Bevis, Tampa Bay Times, November 12th, 2006

A curious state of affairs, certainly;
during the initial investigation Leon County authorities had vehemently denied any implication of sexual deviance,
and then nearly a half-century later we learn Joy Lynn had been assaulted
and a neighbor allegedly harbored a predilection for necrophilia.
To conspiracy-minded armchair sleuths this contradiction can mean only one thing:
a cover-up,
possibly at the behest of Male Suspect’s father,
a nationally renowned criminologist and FSU bigwig.

Although I’m generally not a proponent of conspiracy theories
I will say the investigation into the Sims murders was particularly abysmal,
and I’m not solely referring to the horde of looky-loos high-stepping
through the crime scene—as appalling as such gore tourism seems in hindsight, such behavior was common at the time.

Crime scene photo of the Sims living room

Crime scene photo of the Sims living room

“Neurosurgeon Says Attack Victim Has No Chance of Recovery.” Headline, The Palm Beach Post, October 29th, 1966

The nine days Helen Sims lingered on death’s doorstep were a wasted opportunity—from the moment she entered Tallahassee Memorial authorities broadcast the irreversible nature of her vegetative state.
Leaked erroneous reports of Mrs. Sims’ recovery would have furnished an effective pressure tactic
and interrogation tool—the belief Mrs. Sims was up and talking may have caused the assailant(s) to flee town
or confess in a bid for leniency.
Yet if such a strategy was employed I can find no evidence of it.

A mere three years after the crime, in 1969,
then-Leon County Sheriff William Joyce told a reporter from The Panama City News Herald  the crime would never be solved unless the perpetrator(s) confessed.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a law enforcement agency give up on solving a major crime so quickly—whether this premature surrender was prompted by incompetence or malfeasance is impossible to say.
I do know the perpetrator(s) had to be sleeping easier knowing the Sheriff’s Office had so readily admitted defeat.

Sims living room, alternate view

Sims living room, alternate view

Yet these tactical missteps pale beside the deathblow inflicted on the investigation in 1987; the power to solve the Sims murders may have been within Sheriff Campbell’s grasp
and he swatted away the opportunity like a Florida mosquito.
Male and Female Suspect married and left Tallahassee after the murders,
but after their subsequent divorce
Female Suspect contacted Sheriff Campbell and requested an interview.
During the interrogation, which was taped,
Female Suspect allegedly admitted visiting the Sims home the night of the murders
but claimed to have no memory of the event—she instead proffered a version of the crime that had come to her “in a dream.”

“He was very, very close to getting her to admit to something.” First Responder Rocky Bevis, speaking of Female Suspect, WCTV Tallahassee, April 28th, 2015

Author and historian Henry Cabbage procured a copy of the interrogation tape from Sheriff Campbell,
and earlier this year played excerpts
during a presentation on the Sims murders at the Tallahassee Historical Society.
On Tallahassee-O, a website dedicated to documenting corruption in Florida’s capital,
an attendee of the Historical Society event claims Female Suspect’s “dream” recollections include the following statements:

     “I went in there and looked at that body.”

     “My God that kid with her clothes off lying on that floor . . . my God!”

     “How could he be turned on by something like that?”

     “How could he be interested in that ugly little girl?”

     “I was looking at the kid lying on the floor.”

Then, after hours of foreplay, the investigatory version of coitus interruptus:
after the recitation of the “dream,”
Female Suspect asks Sheriff Campbell what will happen if she admits to being in the Sims home
during the commission of the crime
and the Sheriff—a man with more than two decades of law enforcement experience at that point—tells the suspect teetering on the edge of a confession she’ll go to jail.

“You only get one shot in this kind of a case; I’m certain I have talked with the perpetrator many times, and it’s just a case of who gives in first.” Leon County Sheriff Larry Campbell, The Tallahassee Democrat, November 21st, 1999

In my forty-plus years on this planet,
during my three years of law school,
after reading hundreds of true crime books and watching more episodes of Cops  than I care to admit
I have never, ever heard a law enforcement officer so blatantly scuttle an interrogation.

For the uninitiated, although police officers aren’t allowed to lie about offering immunity the constitutionally permissible answers in such situations are:

     a) I don’t know what will happen if you admit to being in the house; I’m a cop, not a lawyer. Besides, I don’t even know what you’re going to tell me—I’ll need more information before I can give you advice.

     b) I don’t know what will happen, but I do know that whoever participated in the crime needs serious psychological help, and the best way for you to get that help is to tell me everything.

     c) Criminal charges are within the purview of the DA’s office, not the police department; but if Male Suspect committed this crime he’s a homicidal maniac and you and your family are in grave danger. The best way for you to get the protection you need is to tell me exactly what happened.

Not only did Larry Campbell act like he’d never conducted an interrogation before,
he acted like he’d never even seen a police procedural on television.
Even if feeblemindedness prevented him from successfully skirting the constitutional issues
he should certainly have contacted the district attorney
and brokered a plea deal for reduced charges in exchange for Female Suspect’s testimony.
Such agreements are commonplace;
for Sheriff Campbell to imply leniency in exchange for cooperation is an impossibility is ludicrous.
If a conspiracy to protect Male Suspect from prosecution exists,
Sheriff Campbell’s inexplicable behavior during Female Suspect’s interrogation is the best supporting evidence.

“I’ve done everything I think I can do; the big frustration is that I feel very confident that I know who did it.” Leon County Sheriff Larry Campbell, Tampa Bay Times, November 12th, 2006

Virginia Sims' bedroom

Virginia Sims’ bedroom

Although the details of the crime and botched investigation have been known to me for some time the cursory search for new information I performed the night before my friend’s wedding
divulged a new fact—two new facts, actually.
For the first time ever certain message boards have published the suspects’ real names, and . . .I . . .was . . .off.

“My attorney said, ‘You gathered all this through public records; (the suspects) are named in public records.'” Author and historian Henry Cabbage on his rationale for publically naming the suspects, The Tallahassee Democrat, March 11th, 2015

My early morning obligations forgotten I began scouring the web,
snatching facts and minutiae like a grocery shopper prepping for a Panhandle hurricane.
I began my research with Male Suspect’s father Famous Criminologist,
curious as to whether an academic could possibly have had sufficient clout to quash a murder investigation.
A brilliant and progressive man,
Famous Criminologist is quoted extensively in mid-century court cases and penal publications;
the textbook he authored was the gold standard for an entire generation of law enforcement professionals.
As I pored over old court decisions and newspaper articles
I gleaned no insight into whether or why his son may have murdered the Sims,
but I did learn Famous Criminologist was a revered figure—having such an esteemed scholar at FSU must’ve been considered quite a coup for the University.
The existence of a conspiracy to shield Male Suspect from prosecution no longer seemed farfetched.

Famous Criminologist died in 2001, and the date of his death holds some significance:
in a 1999 Tallahassee Democrat  article journalist Rosanne Dunkelberger
describes Sheriff Campbell as being “coy” about the identity of the suspects,
but in the next chronologically available article—published in 2006—the Sheriff provides enough biographical details to make the suspects’ identities plain to Tallahassee natives.
There was no radical change in libel laws between 1999-2006;
I can’t help but believe this loosening of Sheriff Campbell’s lips was occasioned by Famous Criminologist’s passing.

As the minutes turned to hours I shifted my focus to the suspects themselves.
Both have since remarried and live in Florida, although neither resides in Tallahassee.
I secured Female Suspect’s new married name through Intelius
and then discovered her LinkedIn page and voter registration status.
Property records are public so I found her address and gawked at her home on
I don’t know what I was looking for—no one confesses to murder on their LinkedIn page—-but by god I was looking.

Both Male and Female Suspect are in their dotage now,
and like many of their ilk their cyber-footprints are faint and far between.
Despite spirited digging I was unable to determine Male Suspect’s profession,
but I ogled his domicile on Trulia and found the obituary of his second wife, a factory worker.
As was the case with Female Suspect
I can find no evidence Male Suspect has ever been arrested;
the sole blot on his record is a $145 speeding ticket from 2004, which he promptly paid.
Further exploration led me to an obituary for his grandson, killed in a vehicular mishap at the age of twenty-two;
the two were apparently close—at the time of Grandson’s death they’re listed as residing at the same address.

According to The Tampa Tribune, Grandson was driving his motorcycle recklessly when he lost control
and crashed into the side of a pick-up truck—a very Florida death,
or so it struck me at the time.
Like Helen Sims, Grandson lingered long in the hospital, two weeks to Mrs. Sims’ nine days.
Unlike Male and Female Suspect information about Grandson is plentiful on the web,
and it’s here my digging took a decidedly unpleasant turn—Florida Sunshine laws are my crack cocaine, apparently.

Crime scene photo of the Sims' bedroom (apologies for the poor quality)

Crime scene photo of the Sims’ bedroom (apologies for the poor quality)

Grandson, described by friends as a “St. Pete legend,” had an extensive arrest record,
boasting three different mugshots and twenty-seven legal entanglements since 2003, beginning at age twelve.
Although most of the offenses are minor two of the arrests were domestic violence-related,
pertaining to two separate victims,
one nearly twice Grandson’s age.

At this point I have no idea what I was looking for—perhaps an indication Grandson’s criminality could somehow be linked to Male Suspect—but any concrete ties to the Sims murders had evaporated long ago.
And yet still I panned for data in cyberspace,
certain the next link I clicked would harbor the information I so desperately sought,
whatever that information might be.

A Facebook memorial page has been created in Grandson’s memory
and I read each and every comment, mentally correcting the posters’ spelling and grammar as I scanned the page.
I then unearthed a memorial YouTube video:
a fellow biker does nothing but rev his engine until it belches black smoke,
poisoning the ozone layer in Grandson’s memory.
As the video ended and I scrolled down to read the comments I remember thinking to myself,
“That’s the Florida effect for you—in three generations Male Suspect’s lineage went from esteemed Ph.D. to wife-beating hillbilly . . . .”

And as I completed that thought a noise outside my window startled me—it was birdsong, I realized.
Morning had dawned, and my 5am alarm was scheduled to go off any minute.
As I began to scramble out of bed a wave of revulsion washed over me:
what the holy hell had I been doing all night?

The Sims house in 1966

The Sims house in 1966

“In those days, we didn’t have the scientific capabilities (to examine evidence) we do now. If this happened now we’d have somebody in jail tomorrow.” Leon County Sheriff Larry Campbell from a 2011 interview, Tallahassee Democrat, March 11th, 2015

Any big breakthrough in the Sims case will come courtesy of technicians in a forensic lab, not via a blogger gawking at the suspects’ houses on Trulia from a thousand miles away.
A spokesperson for the Leon County Sheriff’s Office claims the crime scene evidence is regularly resubmitted for testing,
and Sheriff Campbell died last year;
if a conspiracy to shield Male Suspect existed—and there is a fair amount of evidence to suggest one did—the Sheriff was the last remaining link.
Perhaps his passing will be the break the investigation needs.

“We’re not giving up on the case.” Sergeant James Tyson, head of the Leon County Sheriff’s Office’s Violent Crime Unit, speaking of the Sims murders. Tallahassee Magazine, May-June 2015 edition

Even if Male and Female Suspect are guilty—even if they went on to become the most prolific serial killer team in Florida history—I’m not going to see bodies buried in their basements on Google street view.
More importantly, regardless of his grandfather’s guilt or innocence
Grandson has no culpability in the Sims case whatsoever—-he was born twenty-six years after the crime.
To snigger at a dead twenty-two year old’s ill-chosen tattoos and extensive arrest record
is crass bordering on sociopathic.
I was horrified;
while I was looking into the Sims murders the abyss was looking into me,
and the elitism and malevolence I saw there appalled me.

“The worst enemy you can meet will always be yourself.” Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra

I had a terrible time at my friend’s wedding, incidentally,
too exhausted from my long night violating the Suspects’ privacy to do anything but sit slumped on the sidelines.
Now every time I see a photo of myself at the ceremony
looking like hot buttered death
it will be a reminder of the ugliness I saw peeking back at me from the mirrored abyss.
Solving the Sims murders may be above my paygrade but being respectful of other people isn’t.
The monster I should be hunting is the one that lives in my own psyche.

The Sims house today

The Sims house today

  1. That initial fear passed, but I would imagine that the people who lived in the city when the Sims were murdered never looked at the world in quite the same way again. The perfect crime all done by removing the ladders out the pool.

  2. taffy550 says:

    LOL I came across this blog when I was google searching for new way to kill my sims. The article was intriguing, but this comment made my day. lmao/

  3. Pam Bohlen says:

    I was friends with Joy. My friend Veronica and I were going skating that night at the Armory. We invited Joy to go with us and spend the night afterwards. Her mom and dad said no because she had to go to Church the next morning. It is one of those “if only”. So sad, I still think about her every so often and wish things would have been different. It did truly change the way people in Tallahassee saw life and an event that will always be in our mind anbd hearts. I only pray that one day they will solve this horrible event and finally get the closure that the family deserves.

    • Anonymous Anonymous says:

      How old was the criminology professor in 2001 when he passed? 65? 70? 80?

      Has anyone entertained the thought that the renouned professor was the murdeter. That the cover up or conspiracy was to protect him? (Knowingly or unknowingly)

      If he was that smart perhaps he could 1) get away with murder, 2) know people mighr suspect his son – or even point in that direction if necessary (knowing evidence would never be found or linked to his son …legally), 3) have just enough clout and or pressure to intimidate anyone who would actually start investigating his son 4) intimidate others and their career advancements in Law Enforcement – knowingly or unknowingly; leaving them incapable of ever conducting a proper investigation of him or his son due to fear of ruining their careers if wrong OR just unable to PROVE anything prosecutable.

      Also, he would have known the Sims …board of education. He may of been allowed inside. No forced entry. As reported.

      Perhaps Joy’s clothes were only staged. In attempt to lead investigators to a pedoohile or …weird son.

      How old was the professor in 1978? Was he still teaching at FSU?

      The female’s so called half confession after a recent divorce …may have been nothing more than

      • I saw you under the street light says:

        Hi Vernell

      • Vernon Fox says:

        Mary Charles LaJoie was trying to use her Psychic powers to claim the reward. My scheduled alimoney payments had ended, and she needed money. It did not work because Larry knew that she and I were at a lovers lane at the time of the murders. She let me out of her car on Gibbs near Stiles at 11:07 PM on the night of Oct 22, 1966 (and I can testify to that in court because I looked at the clock just before I got out of the car). I started walking home, and a Dodge Valient with three white men in it stopped, opened the rear passinger door for me to get in, and then realized that i was not the man they were looking to pick up, and then drove towards Tharpe on Gibbs. I can testify to seeing that in a court of law, and there will be no evidence to the contrary because it is true. That happened at around 11:10 PM. Also I arrived home at 11:15 PM that night. I looked at the clock on our stove, so I can also testify to that. It is not possible to refute that in a court of law because it is true. These facts alone make it impossible to establish even the most basic case against either Mary Charles LaJoie or Vernon B Fox, Jr. let along both of us. Nobody reccalls that Dr. Fox was an assistant Warden and Prison Psychologist at the State Prison of Southern Michigan. He has no experience in law enforcement, crime scene investigation, or detective work. He was a Corrections and Treatment expert. People know he was a Criminologist, but do not remember his area of expertise.

      • Vernon Fox says:

        My dad did not have access yo s .38 and neither fid I. That alone makes it impossible for either of us.

    • Leilani Aletras says:

      My mother always talked about that “if only” fact.

  4. Always Connected says:

    I saw you under the street light – looking at the house. I know you remember.

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr. says:

      I had no idea of the meaning of this comment. It seems that Mary Charles made statements that I did such stuff. It is not true, and has no basis in fact. The undercover dog patrols would have caught anyone who roamed our neighborhood at night. Nobody was caught roaming our streets at night. Nobody stood under a street light. It is just made up nonsense. Perhaps a character in a TV show did such stuff. People treat this like I was a character on a TV show. I am not. I am a real person.

      If I could slip into your house at night through locked doors, murder everyone in the house, and slip away without a trace like a super criminal, then people would be more cautious about what they say, But their actions tell us that nobody believes that I am such a dangerous criminal.

      • Linda L. Lawrence says:

        I lived on the corner of Gibbs and Hagan, I was home that night with the maid and my baby sister. We all heard the gun shots. My father was Sgt. Perry R. Lawrence, Jr former Leon County Sheriff Department. I have compiled a list of interrogatories for you since you decided to open your big fat mouth after 50 *ucking years of silence. … and that is my “first” question Mr. Intelligent. What you running your mouth for now, where have you been for the past 50 years smart ass. What the hell do you know about the God Damn Mafia. Tell it , start talking, we hear ya@!

  5. Vernon Fox says:

    My grandson’s juvenile and reform school records were not very different from my dad’s records. It is just that Dr. Fox’s records are not readily available on the internet. Another thing that they had in common was Dr. Fox’s real father met him while Dr. Fox was in reform school, but my grandson’s father remained unknown in spite on multiple attempts at DNA matching. So it is more like things came full circie. Those who believe Dr Fox influenced the investigation are wrong. He couldn’t even save himself from DUI convictions.
    The night of Oct 22, 1966, MaryCharles (yes it is pronounced as if it was one name) picked me up at the nearby park (my parents did not allow me to see her). We went to a movie and then to a lover’s lane where we had sex in the front seat of her mother’s car. She drove up Tharpe Street and turned North on Gibbs. She let me off at Stiles at a little after 11:00 PM, and i started walking home.
    I had walked about a half of a block when i saw a car on Gibbs that was about 4 bloxks north from me. It came slowley towards me. When it got close to me, the 4-door Valient stopped and the right rear door was opened for me to get in. I saw 3 white men in the car, but it was dark and i was frightened. Someone said “Wrong one, not him.” The door closed and the car drove away. I could not have identified anyone. I walked on home.
    The next morning an investigater spoke to me in our livingroom. I told him my story and told him what clothes i was wearing that night. I offered to give him those clothes, but he declined. I was very afraid that my dad would find out that i was having sex with MaryCharles. A few days later i took a Polygraph test and i answered every question truthfully. Some of the test questions were about stealing goods from stores and others were about taking money that didn’t belong to me. I truthfully answered no to those questions. I did not know that these were supposed to be lies. But they were not. Because they could not see any differences among my answers, the lie detector could not tell that i told the truth to every question they asked. The test was invalid.
    Here’s what happened. A hit team of 3 killers and one driver drove north on Gibbs and at 10:30 PM let the 3 armed killers out of the 4-door Dodge Valient at the end of the back yard of 644 Voncile. The men walked across the grass to the Sims front door. The door was unlocked and they just burst in and gained control. They took Mr. Sims to the bedroom and killed him. Then they took the girl in there ans killed her. I bet it was a single shot behind the right ear pointed towards the center of the brain, the cerebellum. That would be the mark of a professional hit. A neighbor heard screams at about 10:45 PM. That would have been Mrs. Sims fighting for her life. Two shots subdued her and the final shot (behind the right ear towards the center of the brain).
    The fact that nobody heard shots says that the hit man used a .38 revolver with a silencer. The other men were armed with similar weapons. The 5 shots fired indicates that the hit man carried a 6-shot revolver with the hammer resting on an empty chamber while the weapon was holstered. Also, no brass was found at the scene, a sure clue that a revolver was used. No gun was found because the professional hit men took their weapons with them to whatever cith they came from.
    At 11:00 PM, two of the three hit men met the driver on Gibbs, as scheduled. The third man was staging the crime scene for the cops. It took more time than planned. They went north out of the neighborhood, and circled back, going south on Gibbs. They were looking to pick up the third killer, but they found me on Gibbs near Stiles by mistake. I was home before they circled back around and found the man who staged the scene.
    I am thankful to be a suspect. It saved my life by making it unnecessairy to hit me too. I am alive today because of it, and it has caused me no problems in finding jobs or ladied to love me. I couldn’t identify those men then, and i cannot identify them now. My dad never allowed guns in his house. I never had access to a gun. I was never at the Sims house, and they were never in mine. I do not know them, and they did not know us.

    • John Lane says:

      Very hard to have a silencer on a revolver. It wouldn’t work because of the gap near the cylinder. The only revolver I know of that is capable of a silencer is a 1895 Nagant that is a 7.62 caliber, not a 38.

  6. Don Stock says:

    Henry Cabbage is a BS’er far as Im concerned. He doesn’t have enough knowledge to discredit other suspects. He is a person needing an identity and has sought it by being so bold as to settle on two suspects publicly. Bundy prosecutor Jack Poitenger who was present at Cabbage’s well advertised public meeting on the Sims murder (attended by a couple of hundred citizens) put Cabbage in his place by asking Cabbage if he had anything that would exclude a particular suspect in this case and Cabbage had none. Cabbage quickly shut down public discussion on his little presentation and as far as I am concerned, Cabbage was made a fool.

    Anyway, Law enforcement is still investigating the Sims murder, at least in 2015, through a mixed task force of new faces and opinions. And there are some conclusions by some that the new suspect in the case is a shocker. Stay tuned.

  7. Don Stock says:

    The piano tuner who was interviewed lived just a street away on Voncile. He once came to my house to tune my piamo and when I mentioned the Sims murder, he mumbled something to me that he was named a suspect and that pissed him off. He didn’t use those words but his disturbance was very clear.

  8. Don Stock says:

    three hitmen is crap.

    • Vernon Fox says:

      So you think one hit man and three friends to drop him off and pick him up?

      • Vernon Fox says:

        We know that the favorite weapon of a mob hit or murder for hire is the .22 short. This is because the .22 bullet bounces off the inside of the skull and is too distorted to be matched with a test firing from any weapon. We know that the.38 is a favorite of older Law Enforcement personnel. All .38’s belonging to LE who left fingerprints at the scene should have been test fired and compared to the bullets found in the victims. Only negative results would have cleared them in my mind.

      • Vernon Fox says:

        Or perhaps you believe that the 4-door Dodge Valient with three men in it which stopped as if to pick me up at about 11:10 PM on Oct 22, 1966 on Gibbs near Stiles was not related to the murders which occured between 10:30 PM and 11:15 PM on that night.

  9. Friendofsims says:

    What kind of gangsters need three hit men to kill a regular, suburban couple and a twelve year old? Dr. Sims wasn’t a Navy SEAL. And how could these professional killers mistake you? They had their headlights on, you said so. So did your girlfriend. So they could see you weren’t their colleague. Explain why three hit men? One to drive, one to read a map, one to go in the house? Your “theory” makes no sense. You know you did it. You know you watched them from the banana tree between your back yard and the Sims.’ Not hit man would have known about that spot. You were the only person that could have hidden there. You were the only person who wouldn’t have worried about being seen by the occupants of 644 Voncille–your residence. You rode around with your girlfriend in her little white Chevy laughing at the cops when they drained Stiles pond. You knew the knife wouldn’t be there. You enjoyed making fools of the cops, didn’t you? You stalled taking the polygraph. You wouldn’t put the chest piece on. You were scared of the poly and you know it. I was in the Valiant that night. I saw you walking on the street that night. You weren’t home at 11:15 like you told the police. You were scared someone saw you. You were right. Why don’t you call FDLE and confess? Before they match DNA to your girlfriend.

    • Vernon B Fox says:

      I did not do it. Unlike you, I post using my real name. There was nothing but grass between my bedroom window and the Sims drivrway and front door. There was no bananna tree in our back yard. That was on the side yard next to the TV antenna. If I wished to look at the Sims house, I could look out the picture window of my bedroom. There was no place to hide in our back yard. Only grass.

      4 men were sent after Mr Sims. One driver to drop them off in my back yard and come back to pick them up at 11:00 PM, and 3 men to gain entrance quickly and overcome the loaded shotgun that Mr Sims kept because he was afraid of such an attack. Mr Sims was better prepared for an attack than most people are today. He would have been better prepared if he carried a pistol.

      If the third hitman wore dark clothes and was a new member of the team, then he could have resembled me enough to cause the mistaken identity. It was a dark night and I was in the shadow of that large tree between Gibbs and the sidewalk which I was on. I was not in the full light of the headlights. I was at the side of the car when they opened the passenger side back door for me. The missing team member needed more time to complete his task. The other 2 joined the driver at 11:00 PM on schedule, left the neighborhood, and returned 5 minuted later to pick him up. His job was to set the crime scene up to look like a sex crime. One man was a specialist on gaining entry quickly through locked doors. One man was an efficient killer who knew how to destroy a brain. And one man had studied the area, its roads, escape routes, and was the driver. He knew that we could not see a car on Gibbs dropping men off at the end of our back yard. Dark clothing would make it nearly impossible to see them approaching the Sims house through thr grass in our back yard. The car was probably a rented car from the airport. The game and fair would have given plenty of cover for that. Mary Charles had droppef me off and continued up Stiles towards her home, and I walked north on Gibbs towards my home. Mary Charles could not have seen that car or its headlights.

      I was slightly worried that they would find the jack knives that I had lost as a kid camping in the area of Stiles pond. I was worried that they might find the large hunting knife that I had lost there years earlier. But there could be no identifying marks on those knives. And certainly there would be nothing to connect them to the Sims murders because I had lost them years before the murders.

      You were almost right about the Polygraph. The chest strap was no problem. I could not stand the pain caused by the blood pressure sensor on my left arm. In 1963 I had an operation on my left arm to give me better use of my left hand. The nerve (sometimes called the funny bone) in my left elbow was moved to a position which came under the blood pressure cuff. I could not stand the pain, and I told them that I would not do the test with the arm cuff. Just as I was about to leave, they told me that they had a pressure cuff that worked on the hand. They put it on my hand and I was OK. Everything that I said while hooked up to the machine was true. They did not know me well enough to make up a question that I was required to lie on to say NO which would give them a baseline of my reaction to telling a lie. Since I never lied on the test, it was invalid. These tests cannot be used in court to support my claim that I do not lie, cheat, steal, or murder. They cannot be used against me either. The only purpose is to fish for statements that can be used against me. There are always witnesses to testify about your statements, but lie detector test results cannot be used in court by either side.

      The FDLE knows how to get on touch with me. They know that I have never fired a .38 handgun. They know that I was never in the Sims house. They know that I have never had any relationship with any of the Sims. They know that I spent my nights at tje Starlight, the Woodville Tavern, the American Legion in Quincy, Tallahassee, Thomasville, and other towns. I usually had sex with older women and bar maids, most of them not married. I had sex frequently with Mary Charles, and I married her. I was never sexually fixated on that ugly little Sims girl. I never paid any attention to her. I only know what she looked like from that ugly picture in the paper. Perhaps it didn’t do her justice. I don’t know. My DNA could have been found in Mary Charles that night, and in Odessa the night before.

      Larry Campbell was not interested in the truth about the Sims murder. He only wanted to see my body cramp, twist, jerk, and smoke as the electric current cooked my body alive. You are just like him. To hell with the truth, lets fry VBF Jr and not mention his name or pay attention to evidence which shows that he was NOT involved.

      I know that you lied about seeing me that night. Give me your real name and address. Some night we can sit down and talk about it.


      VBF Jr.

      • Linda L. Lawrence says:

        I did not write the comment you are “responding” to but, I would love for you to meet me at the Leon County Sheriff’s Department, its on! I have been waiting for an eye to eye interview with you for 50 years! I have a long list of interrogatories for you sweet heart, perhaps its time to set the record straight. We lived on the corner of Gibbs and Hagan (you know who I am!) and everybody in Park Side knows who you are. Tell me something, is it true your mother used to wake up screaming from the smell of dead bodies you would bring home from the morgue? Did you or did you not molest Joy Sims? Is there a reason why the warrant for your arrest was issued the day of the murders? Is it just chance that they were all murdered that night? Did you really think that the people living near the Sims (Mr. Halligan, FBI Agent), (Mr. George Thurston, Editor for the Tallahassee Democrat) could really keep a secret in this small town. Any secrets you wish to share with me, I’m listening!

      • JW says:

        Mr. Halligan was not a FBI agent he was an investigator with the Sheriff’s Bureau, which was the four runner to FDLE. Mr. Halligan was called in off another case to work the Sim’s crime. Mr. Halligan lived very near the crime and could not even park in his drive due to all the cop cars.

      • Blg says:

        I believe you

      • Friend of Sims says:

        The shotgun was mentioned on pg 2 of the Tallahassee Democrat on Oct, 24, 1966. It was probably supposed to be a secret known only to Law Enforcement.

    • Don Stock says:

      Friend of Sims, who are you?

  10. friendofsims says:

    You are the only person that has described Joy Sims as ugly. The only person. Well, I take that back. You’re the only person to say such a thing besides your former wife, Charlie.

    Did Joy not want to talk to you? Did she avoid you? Did she spurn you? Was she creeped out by you like the other little girls in the neighborhood that knew you watched them while they played outdoors? Because what you say about her is horrible. No normal person would say that about a child who was brutally murdered–stabbed and left exposed as she was. You must have really hated her. Either you hated her or you are very, very sick.

    No other suspect said anything hateful like that. I think that is very telling.

    Why would gangsters kill this family? Did Mrs Sims hit the wrong note on the piano at church one day? Did Dr Sims forget to give a waitress her tip? What did they do … to anyone? You and your girlfriend seem to be the only people that has a problem with the Sims. Charlie’s disdain for them is evident from her video interview. Yours is evident from your comments about an ugly girl not worthy of your interest.

    You say here you didn’t know the Sims. Yet you claimed Dr Sims ran over your dog. People remember you being upset about that. Do you remember that?

    • Vernon B. Fox, Jr. says:


      The fantastic lies that you believe are amazing. You are wrong. People do not remember me being upset that Mr. Sims ran over my dog. I never claimed that Mr. Sims ran over my dog. I never told anyone that I was upset or angry about Mr. Sims running over my dog. I was neither upset nor angry at Mr. Sims running over my dog. . I never thought that Mr. Sims ran over my dog. I know that Mr. Sims did not run over my dog. Do you know why? The answer is simple enough for you to understand. I never had a dog.

      It could be that Mr. Sims was killed because he was a witness in a secret NCIS investigation into a Navy cold case. It could be that professional gamblers caught him cheating them at blackjack by using his computer skills. It could be that Federal Witness Protection failed to conceal whatever he was about to reveal to them. Perhaps he accidently discovered come corruption in state government while doing his computer work. Maybe one of the law enforcement people who left there fingerprints at the scene killed him and came back to the scene later to cover his tracks. The Justice Department, the F.B.I. and N.C.I.S. were not involved in the investigation. None of them talked to me about it. Larry Campbell talked to me once, the day after the murders, and I offered to give him the clothes that I wore that night. He was not interested in checking my clothing for blood or other evidence. He refused my offer. There are a number of possibilities that were ignored in the effort to find evidence against me while ignoring the collection of actual physical evidence at the scene and in the neighborhood. Nobody asked a judge for a search warrant to find out if I had a .38 or a bloody knife in my house. After nearly 50 years of failing to find evidence against me, one could come to the reasonable conclusion that there is no such evidence because I was not involved.

      They have to find evidence that the suspect was at the scene. They have to find evidence that the suspect had a .38 handgun with which to shoot .38 slugs into the victims. It would be good if the slugs matched the gun. They have to find evidence that the suspect was not somewhere else. There is no such evidence because I was not involved..


      VBF, Jr.

  11. friendofsims says:

    You make good points. It is clear you are very knowledgeable about this case and matters of forensics. I’m glad we can clear up the dog story. I’m sure that Dr Sims would never have done something like that intentionally. He was one of the finest men I have ever known. They don’t come any better than he.

    I think there is evidence. For one thing you just said there is no way your former wife saw the valiant or its headlights. Yet she told the police she did. She said it more than once. So there we have a discrepancy in your stories. “DA’s” like that sort of thing.

    But you have not addressed my point about the banana tree. The killer crouched there, trampling the lilies, the grass, getting beggar’s lice on himself, and slicing the banana leaves with his knife. He spent some time there. He would not be seen from the Sims’ home–neither from their kitchen, their dining room, nor from their living room windows. Yet, this man was able to watch his victims from this spot. This he did–he watched and observed. He wasn’t a hired killer. It was someone who wasn’t worried about being seen from your back yard or your back windows. I’ll let the reader draw his or her own conclusions from that. It was the perfect spot. The Sims’ couldn’t see this young man. Nor would the Shadduck’s, Clarkson’s, Raker’s, Hadaway’s, or anyone casually passing by on Gibbs Dr. or turning down Muriel.

    If it was a hired gun he risked being seen by your sister that night as she napped and watched a Saturday night movie. He risked being seen by you when you came back to your room which afforded a view of the Sims’ back yard and the back of their house. A hired killer carrying out this careful plan would not have taken such a risk, lingering there to watch and work up the nerve. He’d see who was home, then get in and get out fast. They were smart enough to make it look like a sex crime after all.

    No it wasn’t a hired killer or someone from state government that killed the Sims.’ They were worried about a neighbor who came in their house before. They were worried about a neighbor that was caught watching their daughter from the bushes a week before the murders. They were worried about a neighbor who was upset at his father for the way the old man treated the boy’s mother, and who was upset over the old man’s affairs. So much so the young man had to leave the military due to a mental health breakdown. The Sims were worried about a young man with a girlfriend that enjoyed making prank calls to the ambulance service. A girlfriend who liked panties and knives. A girlfriend that knew how to tie knots. A girl who liked to make out in cemeteries. I think we both know who I am talking about.

    And you have not addressed my point about your hatred for the little girl. You called her ugly. I think there’s a reason for that. You don’t want to admit your interest. Not to yourself. Not publicly. Your conscience bothers you about that. That is why you didn’t respond to that.

    • Vernon B Fox says:

      Dear Fiendofsims,

      Mary Charles quote from the Larry Campbell tape, “How could he be interested in that ugly little girl?” came from an unfortunate remark that I made to her in the student center at FSU. We saw that bad picture in the Democrat of her looking like an innocent virgin. It was a poor picture to be sure. My comment, “Now that’s an ugly little girl,” did not actually refer to the picture or her. It referred to the punch line of an insensitive joke about a hillbilly dad explaining to his son what a virgin was. There was a hillbilly family which practiced incest, but no family member would have sex with the ugly little 7 year old sister. So the dad explained that a virgin is an ugly little 7 year old girl like his sister. And then his son understood exactly what a virgin was.

      It began as a stupid uncaring remark between intimate people, and was expected to remain a private joke between us. It was never intended to be public, but Mary Charles used it in the interview with Larry Campbell. She used it as an attack on me, but most people did not understand that it was just more of her attack on me.

      Me repeating that foul insensitive remark is unjustifiable, and I appologize for it. It was stupid and irresponsible, I regret any hurt that this old joke has caused.

      When I left her, Mary Charles’s physical attacks on me stopped, but the verbal attacks did not. The last physical attack against me or my property happened at my workplace after I moved to an apartment by myself and started the petition for disolution of marriage. She did not know the location of my apartment, but she knew where I worked. She came to my work and broke all the windows out of my car with a heavy iron crowbar. Then she took my gas cap off and placed a lighted match in the gas filler neck. It was fortunate that the car did not explode. The match just burned out in the gas filler neck and left a chared image that remained for years. That was a one in a million stroke of luck. That interview with Larry Campbell was her last attack on me, but you and others maintain the attacks on me.

      I will reply again to some of your other commenrs at a later date. Enjoy your 4-th of July weekend.

      I had nothing to do with the Sims.

      • phaerae48 says:

        Gotta say your comment:

        ““How could he be interested in that ugly little girl?” came from an unfortunate remark that I made to her in the student center at FSU. We saw that bad picture in the Democrat of her looking like an innocent virgin.”

        Is very telling in itself…you make out like she wasn’t “an innocent virgin”…she was 12…why would that be funny unless you had some reason you didn’t consider her innocent and virginal…like you has personal inside proof she wasn’t?

    • Vernon B. Fox, Jr. says:

      Ok. I will tell you again. There was no banana tree in the back yard of 644 Voncile Ave.

      I will attempt to reconstruct the details of Mary Charles Psychic visions of the killer lurking in the banana tree. First of all the banana is not a tree. it is a clump of plants which form a circle. the trunks of the “tree” are compact parts of the leaves. Here is my idea of the Psychic vision that Mary Charles had:


      The killer hid in the circle of plants that formed the banana thicket. He trampled the small lilies and got the beggar lice stuck to his canvas shoes and pants legs. The killer went into the Sims house leaving a trail of beggar lice on the rug, the bedspread, and the clothes of the victims. He tied up the victims while holding a .38 gun on them. He killed them. He stabbed the little girl after she died (which explains why there was little blood in the rug under her) and tried to make the scene look like a sex crime. He went back to the banana hideout to watch for the arrival of the other sisters, and the arrival of the ambulance. He left the scene before the police arrived. K-9 dogs tracked the killer to his banana hideout and then could not track him any more of unknown reasons. The crime scene investigators collected the beggar lice from the crime scene in packets. They also collected beggar lice seeds from the banana hideout, and the clothes of all the suspects. DNA of the collected seeds from the crime scene matched the DNA of the seeds collected from the banana hideout. The DNA of the seeds from one suspects clothes also matched the DNA from the seeds at the crime scene which placed that suspect at the scene of the crime. Tests of gunshot residue from his hands and arms showed that the suspect had fired the murder weapon because it matched the gunshot residue from the hair of the victims near their fatal contact wounds. Please remember that this is a fictional reconstruction of what Mary Charles may have told Larry Campbell. I have not seen the video, and these are only guesses at what Mary Charles may have told Larry Campbell.


      There are many problems with this idea. There was to banana thicket in the back yard of 644 Voncile. There were no beggar lice collected anywhere. There was no police report of K-9 dogs tracking the killer to a banana thicket. There are no investigative photos of the banana thicket.

      Let me tell you how I know that Mary Charles could not tell REALITY from her psychic visions, things she was told, and things she saw in TV shows, or things she just made up. There are other instances of police contact with Mary Charles including an arrest for attempting to hit a policeman with the car she was driving. But this one is relevant here. One of the times that the Jacksonville Police chased a naked Mary Charles down Myra Street in Jacksonville, caught her, and took her to a hospital for Baker Act evaluation she was found to have had an overdose of psycho-active drugs in her system. She had evidence of brain damage from repeated overdoses of drugs. And a C.A.T. scan of her brain showed a brain injury called frontal lobe atrophy. They saw no need to keep her in the mental ward after she recovered from the drug overdose. That is why Mary Charles believed the things that she said, and the things she talked about were frequently neither real nor true. The court would order these records to be submitted in evidence by the request of the defense if there were a trial. It would show her to be an unreliable witness.

      Her memory of the banana thicket came from the southeast corner of her residence at 2749 Myra Street in Jacksonville, FL. It was more than 10 years after the Sims murders and almost 200 miles away. The banana plants, the lilies, and the beggar lice were all there and it matched the description that you gave of the banana hideout except for location and time period.

      Mary Charles was a kind and loving person to me, and I continue to love that Mary Charles very much. When she would fly into a rage, then homicidal Charlie would come out, but only for a few minutes, then loving Mary Charles would return. As long as homicidal Charlie was dormant, I could live with and love Mary Charles. But Homicidal Charlie began to come out more and stay longer. It came to the point that my love for Mary Charles was not enough. I had to think of my personal safety. That is why I left Mary Charles, gave her our house (paid for), a car (paid for), and a year of alimony to give her time to learn how to get along without me. She held a Masters Degree from FSU, and should have been able to care for herself.


      I had nothing to do with the Sims. I did not spy on little girls. There was never a report of me going into anyone’s house uninvited. Any person who does that should be arrested and jailed for at lease 90 days. In fact none of your list of neighbors you gave ever invited me to a back yard cookout much less to their dining room table for supper. None of them even talked to me at any time. We are peace loving people. We detest killing, even as a penalty for crimes. We believe that the people most likely to be shot by a gun is its owner or the owner’s family members. Guns present more danger than protection. Remember that Mr. Sims kept a loaded shotgun in his house. I could not have shot them because there was no .38 handgun that I could have used. I was not fixated on that little girl, but Larry Campbell was fixated on me. I was lucky that he was too honorable to fake evidence against me. I did not have anything to do with the Sims or their murders. If you paid attention, that you know that I lived more than 70 years without referring to this incident. I only looked it up on the internet in February of 2016. Prior to that time I had lived my life without any interest if finding out what people were saying. I did not suffer any bad consequences because of you talking and texting among yourselves, and the most a defamation lawsuit could get me would be a Cease and Desist Order. I chose instead to reply to the lies with the truth. I had nothing to do with the Sims Murder and I never knew anything about the Sims girls.

      VBF, Jr

      • Pam Bohlen says:

        If you have never been in the Sims house, how do you know that he kept a shot gun in his house??

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      You have never been in the Sims house. I was never in the Sims house, but years later I had supper with Bertie Nichols (she was the first person to purchase that house after the Sims). At that time it was the Nichols house. The description of living room, dining room, and kitchen does not apply to the lay-out of that house. Ask any of the many law enforcement people who sat in that house talking, drinking coffee, and getting their fingerprints on everything in the house. For the same reason, I know Mary Charles was never in that house.

      VBF, Jr.

  12. friendofsims says:

    Likewise, Vernon. Happy 4th of July.

  13. Vernon B. Fox, Jr. says:

    The banana thicket did not exist, but maybe a D.A. wanted to present it in court. In order to present in court the theory of the killer lurking in the banana thicket, the prosecution needs a witness to testify that they were there with the killer, or were in fact the killer. That story was either made up or came from a witness (or possibly made up by a potential witness). That witness either was the killer or was with the killer. If the witness was the killer, then they are facing 3 death sentences. If that witness was only at the scene with the killer, then they could escape the 3 death sentences, but Florida Law would mandate 3 life sentences (possibly consecutive) because they were at the scene of murders committed using a gun.

  14. friendofsims says:

    Well, there are photos of the yard that would show one way or another ….
    that will be easy to establish …

    It has been said that you “hated your father but loved your mother.”
    I note that you became a teacher after your mother’s example (a well-loved High School teacher at Leon)

    I can sympathize with you on that… Having an old man like that. Nothing I did was ever good enough. I lived in his shadow. Especially as a teenager and my early twenties. So I can see it must have been hard for you having a father who was the hero of the Michigan prison riots …. and hot shy about saying so.

    • Vernon B. Fox, Jr. says:

      In 1966, there was no banana tree in the back yard of 644 Voncile. Since you have looked at the photos, you know this is true.

      Whoever said that I hated my father was wrong. My father was as loving, as kind, and as forgiving as Jesus. He believed in, “Spare the rod and spoil the child.” Not in the vengeful sense, but in the literal sense. “Spare the rod,” meaning do not hit a child with anything, at any time, or for any excuse. “Spoil the child,” meaning treat children with love, forgiveness, kindness, acceptance, and help them to grow and learn. No, children are not perfect, and they do need guidance. But guidance is not punishment. There was never any punishment in our house. guidance took the form of discussion on what we should have done, what is right, and how all of us could do better. Yes, my autism and attention deficit disorder caused problems, but my dad helped me to be as successful as I was able to be. What I owe my dad could never be repaid. Yes, we disagreed on my going with Mary Charles, but he did accept her when we were married. Unfortunately for me, he was right about her. I would have done better to marry another girlfriend of mine, who just happened to be as old as my mother. He would have accepted Odessa without question. He was a very good prison psychologist, and he could see things about Mary Charles to which I was blind. My father loved me so much that is his dying days, with dementia having overcome his mind, he still knew me when the saw me, and he could still recite my address and phone number to his dying day. My mother did not know me for the last year of her life, but she would say to me, “I have a son about your age, but he is nowhere near as big as you.” We all know that I had to divorce Mary Charles because she became too dangerous to me. My wife Delaina went to Bayfront one December for a cough that she could not get rid of. They said it was bronchitis, and sent her to our family doctor. He had some blood tests done, and the results were bad. She went to the hospital for more extensive tests. A week later they did a liver biopsy and found small cell lung cancer. It is a type of cancer that does not form tumors but just sends cancer cells to every organ in the body. We had her on aggressive chemo therapy, and she improved some, but she died 6 weeks later. I loved my father, and he was very good and kind to me.

      The way our family tells the story of the Michigan State Prison riots of 1952 in Jackson Michigan, my father was the hero. The prison warden, other state officials, and the general public had the opinion that he caused the riot, which was the most costly prison riot in the world in 1952. The warden’s superiors in state government all the way up to the governor believed that he should have been prosecuted as an accomplice in the riots. After all, he was the only prison official who could walk out into the prison yard without an armed escort and without any weapons. He was the only one who could negotiate with the riot leaders to get them to agree to a list of demands (which he wrote in green ink on white paper–the school colors of Michigan State University). They did not capture him, he was allowed to return to his office in the prison. The prison officials wanted to blast a hole in the wall of the prison and storm in with automatic machine guns blazing. The guards would die, but they knew the danger of their job when they took it. Fortunately for my dad the Michigan State Trooper in charge of the planned attack was able to delay it until my dad concluded negotiations with the leaders of the riots. My dad was also fortunate that the officials did not realize that the trooper in charge was a relative of ours. The demands were things that the prison officials knew my dad supported. He also agreed to serve a steak and ice cream supper after the prisoners released the captured guards and returned to their assigned cells for count. Instead of charging him or dismissing him, they allowed my dad to resign. An employment agency found an job for him teaching Psychology and Sociology at F.S.U. at a time when it was still changing from Florida State College for Women to a University only a little less desirable than the University of Florida. He had to promise not to start classes in Criminology and Corrections, and he promised not to campaign for a School of Criminology. He also got a side job with the State Department of Health, but he expressed his opinion that long sentences for possession of pot were causing problems in the prison system, that pot was not a dangerous narcotic, and legalization of pot would help the prison system. And he expressed his opinion that the death penalty was inherently wrong. You know that got him fired from his non-academic job. All that was in the 50’s. When my father went back to Michigan for his 50-th high school reunion, his classmates would come up to him and talk to him about how awful that Deputy Warden Fox who caused the Jackson riots was. They did not even realize that they were talking to the man who sacrificed his ambition to become the Warden in charge of a prison in Michigan in order to negotiate a settlement and save the hostages at a time when “Hostage Negotiation” was unknown. He was a hero to his family and the hostages, but a scapegoat for the rest of Michigan.

    • NewEyes says:

      I’m going to jump in for what it’s worth.

      Friends of Sims I can understand your frustration at never having an answer to this murder. Especially, if they were your friends.

      You must have hung on to everything that was said that met your ears. And, wondered and speculated and dug for more answers until it sounded like “truth”.

      (I’ve been there. Still solving an unanswered homicide …going on 5 years. It feels like a life time …and then I’m reminded of others like the Sims and all of Tallahassee who have waited much, much longer. It doesn’t make it any easier ….but, reality reminds me to be patient …more patient than I already have been.)

      The case needs fresh eyes. And, here’s why. You keep describing things in this case from what you know, may have seen, may have heard, even psychological profiles of the person you “think” did this (could have done something like this) and even profiled their families. Can’t say I blame you. It’s human nature. But, here’s maybe something you don’t know. You’ve described ….ANOTHER …family in Tallahassee that fits that profile – you describe.

      A family I thought could be involved (after doing research on them because of a completely different crime …45 years later). And, I had never even heard of the Sims murder at this point. And, Vernon nor Mary Charlie lived in Tallahassee by that point. I accidently stumbled upon many, many peculiar similarities (not crime scene related) …that would make any person with today’s training at least wonder if ….THIS family …was ever looked into.

      The first time I heard about the Sims murder (via a Tallahassee – Ted Bundy blog stating that “wasn’t the murders that shook Tallahassee to the core” …I thought what in the world are they referring to) …I was born and raised in Tallahassee …?

      But, what captured my attention was all the details …that reminded me of another family in Tallahassee. Did they know each other? Were they friends? (Were they not?) Did their children grow up (play) together? Did this murder EXPLAIN why that family fell apart? Or, at least the kids.

      (I had never heard of Vernon Fox or Mary Charlie Jolie). And, they LIVED within walking distance to my house. No one close by brought up their names.

      I met an older female once ~ 1971 or 1972 (may or may not have been Mary Charlie; I wouldn’t know) …who YES was weirdly obsessed with bloody scenes or accidents. And, oddly mean or rude. But, that was ALL. And, she (nor no one else) had caused the accident. Like many presumed because of other “recent accidents due to bad pranks” in that area. Extremely curious …and insensitive (given her age).

      She kept loudly repeating “look at all the blood …look at all the blood (pointing down at the street)”. Not really wanting to (because it would be my blood and flesh etc) I did anyways.

      Hmmm…there wasn’t that much blood that I could see or find (but it had been a few days since the accident). I said so. This made the older female …slightly angry …that I would disagree with her bloody “findings”. But, it is what it is. I would have been the first person to say it was “a lot” of blood …if it had been. After all it would have been MY blood. I was actually amazed at how very little blood there was …given the nature and severity of the accident.

      I met (saw/spoke with) this person once after getting out of the hospital. Only time I saw her in 6 years.

      My friends wanted me to show them and tell them exactly what had happened. So I did.

      Not a big deal. I was 7 or 8 at the time.

      Could the strange female be Mary Charlie? I have no way of knowing. But, she certainly wasn’t dressed like Jacqueline Kennedy …like most young ladies were in the early 70’s. But, then she might have been single …and maybe single females dressed differently than married ladies???

      At 7 or 8 …one could make the mistake of guessing someone’s age by their clothes …instead of their face. She was the oldest “kid” (or perhaps young lady) I had ever seen out and about.

      And, as far as I know …can tell …it wasn’t Vernon or Mary Charlie who got sent to detention centers (or jail) …during that time period.

      The case needs to start over …

      • Vernon B Fox, Jr. says:

        Mary Charles would be easy to recognize. She had long straight blond hair, parted in the middle, covering her back, and flowing to her butt.

        VBF, Jr.

  15. Vernon B. Fox, Jr. says:

    Yes, I considered a defamation lawsuit, but it would be costly and the best I could hope for would be a Cease and Desist Order to stop the comments. I decided to use my First Amendment rights to answer the lies with the truth.

    VBF, Jr.

  16. Chris says:

    Vernon, I have got to say that I’ve enjoyed reading over your comments here. I was 9 years old when these murders happened and remember it well, probably better than a lot my age due to my father working in law enforcement in Tallahassee at the time. I will tell you he never made mention of you or your girlfriend playing any part in this crime. I am sorry that people want to play judge and jury where you are concerned. I do hope you can enjoy your life and not let all of this get to you.

    Having lived in Tallahassee most of my life and knowing some of the major players in this investigation, I do believe if they thought you were involved you would have been arrested a long time ago.

    I do hope if the two children of the Sims are still living that this case is solved so they can have some closure.

    • Vernon B Fox Jr. says:

      Chris, thank you very much. Larry Campbell believed that I was his prime suspect, but he did not arrest me because there was no evidence against me. He refused to accept that the lack of evidence against me was caused by the fact that I did not do it. I have never fired a .38 handgun, I was never in the Sims house (except for years after the murders when it was the Nichols house), I was not fixated on the little girl (my taste in women is a preferance for women old enough to be my mother–not possible now, but my current girlfriend is 5 years older than me), I never prowled my neighborhood looking at little girls, I liked the older red-neck women at the Starlight Inn and pool hall, the Woodville Tavern, the American Legion next to Lake Ella, one in Quincy, and others in South Georgia and many other beer and pool halls. I was only in a few fights over barmaids and saloon girls. They liked me and were quick to have sex with me. And the sex was always great. I was fortunate to know a little more about fighting than any of my opponents.

      Someday someone will identify the killer by matching the bullets from the crime scene with evidence from another killing.

      Oh yes, your name is special to me. My grandson’s (killed because of a motorcycle accident) older brother, born in 1986, is Chris–and still alive and well.

      VBF, Jr.

  17. friendofsims says:

    This crime was committed by people smarter than most killers … Most cases you have an obvious motive, like robbing someone for drugs, or stealing shoes, or someone is just mad. Courtrooms stay busy with that kind of murder. But the killers in this case came very close to the perfect crime they set out to commit. They did their homework. In some ways it’s tough to solve because some elements are very simple, even sloppy. Like “The Postman Rings Twice,” the old movie. The motive was much more inscrutable.

    But the evidence is there. When you look at who went crazy in the Air Force over his father’s affair, when you look at who was prowling in that neighborhood, who was making prank ambulance calls, and who lurked around in those woods, it becomes clear who did it. And when you consider the prowling and prank calls stop while this young man is in the Air Force and UF and resume once he’s back in Tallahassee. And when you consider that same couple buried a box of love letters in those woods pledging heir love to the gates of hell and back, you can see what the motive was–they had each other and no one else. The boy had an old man that didn’t want them together. And there was this perfect all American family behind him that had everything the couple did not. And that family had caught the boy watching one of the gilrs from the bushes.

    If background isn’t enough then their actions afterwards says something. the young man’s girlfriend lied from her first contact with the police. She said they’d both seen a movie before and stayed for it, then seconds later she changed her story and said her boyfriend hadn’t seen it and so she wanted him to see it. Their alibi That night was each other.

    They both laughed at the deputies draining stiles pond. Why would that be amusing unless they knew there were no weapons there and the cops were miles off?

    • Vernon B Fox Jr. says:

      Dear Friend,

      The stories you tell about me are false. There is nothing real in the tales you tell about me. Fictional accounts of your imagination do not constitute evidence.

      VBF, Jr.

    • NewEyes says:

      “The crime was committed by people smarter than most people” ….?????

      Like someone smart enough to possibly “attempt” a Helter Skelter like scene (but, really didn’t know what they were doing) because the motive was completely different. Even perhaps opposite? [Or, like you say …just didn’t know what they were doing? And, perhaps “Joy” and or Helter Skelter was the motive.]

      I agree the investigation attention should have focused on “kids”. Why was Joy shot and stabbed? Redundant. [Not implying one way or another if kids were involved in committing the murder.]

      But, why was Joy both shot and stabbed? And, not the parents.

      (Did they simply run out of time?) Did they have to stage a scene to look like Helter Skelter? Is that why the parents were blind folded but, not the child …as not to witness the brutal stabbing?

      The killer or killers had a lot of time …took their time. (Came prepared with guns but, not rope.)
      My first impression would not be Helter Skelter like murder (or at the very least not a typical Helter Skelter murder). The child was attacked more brutally than the adults. And, Helter Skelter like murders …did not …stage scenes …OR …involve sexual – pedophile motives (staged or real).

      Thus, why would someone stage a scene to look like pedophile sexual assault and not rape (of Mrs. Sims)? I could be wrong …but, by now …DNA testing …could have/would have been available to rule out sexual assault ….MANY years ago. (Even if the perp was never identified.) It doesn’t appear that their was ever any (real) sexual assault …DNA has been around for a long, long time.

      Did someone perhaps want “kids” to be better protected? Was this staged to show that “kids” were not safe (in their warped opinion). Who felt kids were not safe? 1965 – 1966

      Just a thought.

      And, why the Sims?

      Or, did someone have something against the Sims for being the “PERFECT” All American Family?

      (Besides …some kids in the neighborhood …probably having sex.)

      Just a thought.

      And, why the Sims?

      [I have my thoughts to both/either…but, won’t share here …the investigation is open/active.]

      Most pedophiles REPEAT …and get caught….eventually. Doesn’t seem to be the motive. Anyone could have gained Vernon Fox’s DNA at any time. (And, probably DID …for all anyone knows.)

      But, the unsolved crime …probably did lure someone like Ted Bundy to this area. Especially, if he believed or got wind it was a “cover up”. (And, believed or thought like many that it was a sexual assault crime. When in fact it may or may not ever have been. *Staged …it appears so. But, LE or FDLE would have known if there was or was not semen …a long, long time ago. And, that was never reported on.) But, the cat was already out of the bag (about the possibility) and along came Theodore Bundy.

      I will NOT say the crime was ever “covered up”. I believe someone’s piano man tuner can attest to that. They were looking at other individuals. But, Vernon may be correct that people were fixated on him. Because the crime could have shared some resemblance to Helter Skelter racial crimes. AND ….Mary Charlie Lajoie ….could have been …for lack of a better word …just a strange character …that they couldn’t forget about (understand).

      Or, they got away with the perfect crime. Thank GOD …they didn’t repeat if that’s the case. Two years later my ALL American Family moved to the neighborhood (allegedly on the same street as Mary Charlie Lajoie). Possible I never met her …or met her only once; after a bloody accident. And, Vernon and or Mary Charlie would have possibly thought I too was (another) ugly little (7 year old) virgin with the All American Family.

      I just don’t see this as the motive. For now.

      Or, how they could have kept it a secret for 50 years. And, led normal lives.

      I would question the people …kids …who didn’t grow up to lead “normal” lives…first.

      • thisisthebestthing says:

        Helter Shelter was not born until years later. In fact, and I’d have to check to be sire, but I believe Manson was in jail in 1966.

    • Patience says:

      FriendofSims what are you so afraid of? Why are you so afraid to have this case looked at in the proper manner … which it never was? (That may tend to make you look a little on the guilty side. Think about it and let it sink in.

      Either they; Charlie and Vernon, did or they didn’t but, clearly LE didn’t due their due diligence and I can see that learning about the case 49 years after the fact and never having heard of Vernon or MaryCharlie. Although they apparently lived in the neighborhood; and one on the same street. At one point. We played freely until dark without a worry in the world. But, shame on LE for not clearing Vernon and MaryCharlie one way or the other sooner. I presume most parents close by presumed they were ‘innocent’ if not arrested. Would make sense; true or not.

      I only have memories as far back as 1968 or 1969; and did we move there in 1966 or 1967? And, we lived in 2 homes on the same street – across the street. And, I know for a fact the peeping tom issues and a person or persons trying to open doors was still going on until I was at least 5 & 6 or until 1969 and 1970; maybe longer. And, we moved shortly there after so who knows? But, for other reasons it would be nice to know were they still in the neighborhood or NOT? Most especially, if not. (As these same type of crimes/murders happened many decades later just up the street and those crimes too … are still unsolved. So, just asking. Was Vernon still living there in 1969-1970? Was he back in Tallahassee in 2011; the summer of 2011? The fall of 2011?)

      Many kids make prank phone calls … my friends called the Dragon Room in junior high just to laugh and hang up. I guess hearing an accent was funny to them back then? IDK)

      When researching the case after seeing a comment about the ‘worse crime in Tallahassee’ under a Tallahassee Blog about Bundy (to me for years that was the worse crime in Tallahassee … I was about 14 at the time or almost when he was arrested). So, what was this Sims murder case about in 1966 that no one had ever mentioned? (I was 2 1/2 at the time so I had zero memory of the Sims homicide. Thus, it was simply a matter of timing. But, ironically I was fully aware of the Yamada Bell and Jermain Siplin case 45 years later; almost exactly to the day – minus ~ 30 hours. Another family homicide; or attempt, the parents were shot/killed and one daughter was shot but, luckily survived. And, YES … it shook me to the core. Especially, when 4 months earlier there was another questionable untimely death of a female that LE were claiming to be ‘natural cause’. But, constant break ins there after; without forced entry and missing set of how keys and how the house was ‘found’ suggest … otherwise. (The female was my mother … I couldn’t have been less horrified than if I was one of the Sim’s girls. Who would do this? Why? She was … so kind … so perfect. Who would ever want to do something to her? Were LE correct? But, then who’s breaking in … who could possible have her keys … constantly break in every time I’m invited out to dinner after the funeral for weeks … and CLEARLY ROBBERY IS NOT THE MOTIVE. Finally, a pair of male tinted prescriptions glasses were found on top of some ivy near the door that was already broken into. Was that the reason for the break ins … that simple? Someone looking for glasses; thus, they never take anything, just want their glasses back? But, why not knock and ask – ‘are my glasses inside I think I may have lost/left them here right before your mom passed’? So, simple. Right? Or, did they belong to someone she didn’t know … there was that funny odd receipt found on the floor of someone she would not have known (the receipt had a name; given to police to find out who they were and ask WHY would THEIR receipt be found on top of an obvious crime scene but; but buried underneath other suspect paperwork, possibly next to the victim’s body)? That has always been one suspect. LE have never followed up on this lead … 8 years later; not even after 4 break ins or offered any rational explanation as to why not. I presumed they were. A few days later; the #1 suspect approached stating he had new glasses because he had to replace his old pair because lost (his new prescription eye glasses were tinted). He lived about a 3 minute walk away from the home. Police are aware of this suspect already because of the missing house keys … as he entered the home often; being the gardener. And, they are aware of his comment about new eyeglasses. (The police already have the glasses … I wanted DNA testing … their comment was … that’s not common practice … not without a reason.) No, seriously … they actually stated that in this situation. *You’d have to better understand how many ‘things’ were not right inside or outside of the home the night the LE were called to enter the home to check on the person inside. I live out of town and had grown concern why she wasn’t answering her phone. Had even called her best friend to check. Unfortunately, the dog was barking loudly, she had a hearing deficit, the TV was blaring … and she ‘assumed’ my mother was inside because she heard voices.)

      Long story short … the top suspect’s family …. should have been investigated in the Sim’s murder. For reasons I want get into here but, multiple good reasons … if the motive is connected.

      But, this family lived nearly 2 miles down Tharpe Street in a completely different neighborhood. Certainly they wouldn’t walk. They would probably drive a car. About 3 – 4 minute drive. But, they could walk … google map suggest ~ 20 minutes – multiple routes. Faster if they trotted. Even had experience with weapon used in the crime per information found on one’s military training.

      So, definitely means and access … the question remaining would be did they have a motive? And, if so what would that motive be? [And, could it be similar to the angry son’s/gardener’s motive in 2011? Presuming of course because technically they haven’t solved that homicide either. Thus, can only speculate. Timing and era would fit for 1966 too. Thus, it should be asked.]

      Unfortunately, the dad (the person of interest) is deceased now (1994 – age 76) as is his wife (2010 – age 88). And, if a brother (and or local friends) involved likely they too are deceased.

      Thus, after later learning that Vernon reported seeing a car to police … when was it reported I wondered? In 2015 when case about to reopen? NOoooo … not at all. Right away in fact.

      So, after 50 years … THIS lead was never followed up on? (True or not … police didn’t really go outside of the neighborhood …. except with the ONE exception … of the pastor. An IMPOSSIBLE possibility was the only lead anyone was willing at the time to ever entertain?) In hind site this one alleged person of interest could be key (to a possible motive) only totally uninvolved.

      And, if that’s the case … no wonder he left town … shortly there after. Probably terrified.

      Perhaps the same way another Tallahassee female left Tallahassee for ever and ever shortly after the Sim’s murder. Never to return. Perhaps not even for her adopted parents funerals in 1994 and 2010. And, I suspect (only speculation) that the younger brother doesn’t even know why his older sister left town a few years after the Sims murders Or, if he does no wonder he doesn’t like talking about her … and continues the family rumors; true or not.

      But, for some reason shared that ‘family rumor’ with a neighbor shortly after his mom died in late 2010 or sometime in 2011. Perhaps the neighbor asked to many questions about the sister after the funeral? But, enough to know … he didn’t care for his estranged sister … nor did his family?

      Very odd … given their later years in life …. the brother just went farther down hill and never really amounted to anything … with very educated parents; one pretty high up in the educational field. And, a self admitted druggie. (Although this is the claim against his sister; doesn’t appear true at all.)

      But, if LE can’t even question THIS guy about his neighbor’s untimely death and the possibility of him having keys to her home after her death and entering illegally (or even about the misplaced eye glasses) chances are they may have never thought about his father; or anyone in the Tallahassee area with similar motives back in the 1960’s.)

      Thus, with no leads from LE in nearly 8 years … maybe my question to ‘Vernon’ be were YOU in the Tallahassee area in 2011? And, when his answer is most likely … NO … we should all pick up on where Vernon left off over 50 years ago … in regards to that car on Gibbs Drive.

      White males have been known to kill other (very) good other white people … A LOT in the 1960’s.

      Did these 2 Mississippi families clash on any issues? The Sims and the ones who moved to Tallahassee in 1965 … 2 miles down the road. But, some how living in 2 different school zones. One zoned for Leon High School and the other family zoned for Godby High School. Which by the way was rehashing some old issues again in 1966. Apparently some felt Godby should be segregated or perhaps a new all black high school. Food for Thought.

      Which I realize that may put the Fear of God in a lot of people … NOW … wondering if their own relatives could perhaps have been in that car that Vernon … CLAIMS … to have seen that night.

      But, remember … this is NOT a new claim by Vernon … but, an OLD, said from the start claim.

      Then compare that to … the ‘case never got solved’ … everyone conveniently looked away.

      I don’t know if Larry Campbell ever suspected who or not (maybe he did) but, he was most likely curious if Vernon and Charlie ever knew who. And, needed to know … just in case.

      Yes, I believe someone or a group of individuals wanted it to appear as if Joyce was sexually assaulted. Perhaps put unnecessary or false FEAR in the town to get their way in regards to other issues going on. And, perhaps jealous of this family or selected because the ‘perfect’ family. It wasn’t just ‘Joyce’ … they would have done the same to any or all of the other daughters as well.

      Could be another teenage daughter in town recognized that … and left town ASAP after HS.

      Thus, did the family have to come up with some strange story about her sudden and permanent absence? Never know until someone asks. The adoptive parents are deceased. The brother is a habitual liar with his own problems. And, she moved far – far away.

      Vernon there is no human way possible that I could know if you did or didn’t. I was two.

      But, I can say they went about this investigation as if you were not a suspect initially … and then needed a scape goat because they never solved. When the dust settled they realized pastor Sims was not involved … thus, they needed a NEW suspect or answer. You were the easiest target.

      Guilty or not.

      And, that’s what people need to realize. Many things could have happened. Most haven’t even left the parameter of the neighborhood yet for a list of suspects. VERY ODD. Given your statement.

      And, no one saw neither you or Charlie enter the Sims home that night. If they had I’m sure no one would be having this conversation with you right now. Honestly.

      After Ted Bundy … my generation believed LE solved all crimes … ANY crime … this case – the Sims case …. comes full circle … and proves … maybe not. Obviously not.

      But, I hope that they do … (for multiple reasons) … it’s the moral thing to do, my own natural curiosity of who the suspects are … and hopefully, to bring you peace from a few .. (if) not there.

      IF … you ‘saw’ something of importance … they are long gone (deceased) … and time to bring the Sims girls the closure and answers they so desperately deserve and need.

      In 1966 the night of the Sims murder you claim to have seen a car and it was basically ignored.

      In 2011 the night of the Siplin murder a neighbor also saw a car … and it was basically ignored.

      In 2014 the day of the Markel murder a neighbor saw a car in a driveway … info not ignored.

      Now, let’s review what 2 cases weren’t solved and what case was solved (sort of) depends on definition and degree of ‘solved’ one is looking for.

      LE act as if the 2011 case is solved. Because a completely different suspect went to prison for life for a completely different crime. Nope … that’s not “solved”. Regardless if it’s the motive … or not?

  18. Chris says:

    I don’t know weather Vernon is guilty or not, but what I will say is God and the person that did it know who it is. Unless you were a eye witness it’s pretty obvious to me that no one has a right to point a finger at someone. More cases have been ruined due to Media attention than due to law enforcement neglect. My dad use to say once the Media caught wind of information they would and could ruin a case.

    I personally would feel sorry for anyone that has had to spend there entire adult life dealing with this hanging over there head.

    I’ve know Larry Campbell my entire life up and until he passed away and from what I know of him he was a good law enforcement officer/Sheriff. He was one of my Dad’s pall bearers. I grew up in Tallahassee and still live here. I just don’t find any good that can come out of pointing a finger at someone until the evidence shows them guilty. Everyone has a right to walk this earth as a free person until that time.

    I have spoken to my brother who also worked for the Sheriff’s Department here for many years and he told me some things in reference to this case. My mother is still alive and she I’m sure knows what my dad knew and I will talk to her about it. What I won’t do is a trial by public opinion. That has and will ruin a case and cause a trial to have to be held elsewhere, if and when that day comes. My understanding at his point is that a lot of the evidence has been turned over to FDLE and that being said I will await there professional evaluation. Remember there is no statute of limitation on a murder case, so if and when they find the person that did this and they are still alive then they can and will be held accountable for it.

    • Vernon B Fox Jr. says:

      Larry Campbell was an honorable man, and he provided Leon County with quality law enforcement during his years of service.

      I had nothing to do with the Sims.

      VBF, Jr.

    • NewEyes says:

      A very over looked possible suspect died in 1994. Is that okay to say?

      But, one would have to believe a grow man (or men) were involved. And, no one does.

      • Chris says:

        New Eyes, I read your previous comments from July 21st which for some odd reason is out of date sequence. I’ve got to say you have brought a lot to the table here. I totally agree with you that this case just needs to be reworked. Today’s law enforcement and investigation procedures have come a long way in 50 years. I personally think they need to basically ignore anything they currently have in the way of notes and start fresh. Of course if there is any thing that DNA can be obtained from that needs to be done, but other than that this case just needs to be totally reworked.

        I won’t ever forget what this families death did to Tallahassee, just like I won’t forget what Ted Bundy did to this area. When he went on his rampage I was living out close to campus as my husband was in college at FSU at the time.

        When I was a kid here in Tallahassee me and my siblings use to wander around the neighborhood I grew up in. Now of course I won’t even let my grand daughter out of my site due to the fear of all the meanness that is out there. It’s truly sad what crime has done to this area, but I’m all to aware it’s that way just about every where.

        I do hope in my life time that this case does get solved. Of course whomever did this might not still be alive, but all the same I think the Sims girls and community would benefit from knowing who did this.

        Thanks for your insight on this case, you brought out some very good points.

  19. I saw you under the street light says:

    A few months after the murder – you were there. Across the street from my house. I was in the front yard. When you noticed me – you left hurriedly between the Sims and the Shadducks house. It was you.

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr. says:

      I wish you had shot whoever it was and killed them. Then we would know who it was. It was not me.

      VBF, Jr.

  20. Amanda Tally says:


    You strike me as a very smart and knowledgeable person. I don’t know if you are still in the Tallahassee area or if you know this but the news sites are literally blowing up and people have named you and your girlfriend as the suspects in this family’s murder.

    I’m probably a little younger than you and I was in the Tampa area so never heard of these murders before. I’ve done lots of reading about them and then I read your posts. I will say you have what my dad used to call gumption for using your name and talking about these murders publicly the way you do. It seems you have nothing to hide.

    I don’t think you did this or you would have been arrested long ago. But your story about the hitmen seems way far fetched. It has too many holes that I won’t go into here so I don’t believe this happened.

    I have a different theory and I know it’s just a theory, but it’s the only one that makes sense to me. It seems that this was not a murder but a suicide murder. I know these are more common now and maybe not so much back then, but it makes perfect sense if you think it through objectively.

    This would leave the murder weapon at the scene I know but the police were in way over their heads on this one. Seeing the three dead bodies of a very respectabile family, they must have decided not to ruin this family’s reputation. All they had to do was get rid of the weapon–just one weapon. The first officer on the scene could have done this easily and no one would know. Just hide one gun and that’s it. He probably didn’t realize the effect this would have on the public and how everyone would be frightened by a crazed murderer at large.

    I don’t know if your girlfriend happened upon the bloody scene afterwards after hearing the gun shots, but if so, this would explain everything. Maybe you were covering for her. Apparently the detective told her she would be arrested if she said she was there.

    Maybe you are a circumstance of your own intellect. Like I said, you are a very smart person. But maybe also you seem a little dark and methodical. Not in a bad way but people might think of you as uncaring. I think you just like to get to the point. So I don’t say this to be negative. I’m the same way sometimes. My ex-husband used to tell me that I think like a man. Well that’s old news.

    I’m very interested to follow this case as you have done. Let me know if you like my theory. I know it may be dumb, but it seemed to fill in all the blanks for me. And it’s a lot better than hitmen if you ask me. But maybe I’m clueless though.


    • Vernon B Fox, Jr. says:

      My speculations about many possibilities for the murders are just me imagining what might have been. I have no personal knowledge of what happened. Yes, some of what I imagined is far-fetched. Just because 3 men in a car stopped to pick me up at Gibbs and Stiles at around 11:10 PM that night, it does not constitute evidence that they were even involved. It could be just coincidence. But I know that I did not do it. I know that there cannot be any evidence that I was at the scene. I was never in possession of any gun that could have been the murder weapon. I am lucky that nobody manufactured evidence against me. That speaks well of the integrity and quality of law enforcement in Leon County. Too bad that the investigation did not preserve evidence from the scene and track evidence to the killers. Instead of of careful scientific investigation, they treated it like a TV show. They gathered a list of local suspects and tried to solve it like a Sherlock Holmes or Perry Mason story. It’s a good thing that they learned from those mistakes, or Ted Bundy would still be loose today. Lesson learned the hard way. If this was still the old wild west days, then I would have been one more innocent person lynched from a tree.

      VBF, Jr.

      • PLH says:

        Vernon, you talk a good game but if I were you, I would probably quit while I was ahead. Just some thoughts…

        You talk about your timeline with MaryCharles that night and remark on how it wouldn’t be able to be disputed in court because it is “true,” but the fact of the matter is that it’s awful coincidental that two solid persons of interest in the case are each other’s alibis, and it doesn’t sound like a third party can verify anything about your movements that night. That leaves nothing BUT room for dispute.

        You said MaryCharles dropped you off at Gibbs and Stiles at 11:07 P.M. and that you got home to 644 Voncile at 11:15 P.M. Google Maps shows that to be a distance of 0.2 miles coverable in about 3 minutes by foot. Any particular reason it took you 8 minutes such that your arrival at home magically corresponds to when the crime was discovered? Around 11:15 P.M. is also the same time that the daughter, Virginia, arrived home to find the grisly murder scene. So coincidental.

        I’m leaning toward your “Valient” story being a fib to try to point suspicion elsewhere. Funny how no one else but you seemed to see this strange car roaming the neighborhood. And then your wildly speculative tale of professional hit men is absolutely ridiculous.

        For one, for a professional “hit,” it was super sloppy and theoretically they didn’t even really get the job done. The father and mother were still clinging to life when Virginia got home. Mr. Sims expired shortly thereafter, but Mrs. Sims survived in the hospital for a little while before dying. That would certainly leave some loose ends, don’t you think? I would think professional hit men would be fastidious enough to check for signs of life and then make sure the job was actually done – otherwise they were extremely sloppy with leaving potential witnesses alive.

        On a related note, why the random gunshot to Mrs. Sims’ leg? Was it someone who was inexperienced with using a gun and maybe missed the intended target? Or was the gunshot wound to the leg a “test shot” to gather up courage to apply the fatal head shot?

        Nothing about this murder reeks of a professional hit…it actually seems rather clumsy. Maybe even experimental. Maybe like something teenaged first-time killers would do.

        I find it interesting that on one hand you state that your back yard would not have sufficient coverage to hide anyone from view from the Sims’ house, yet you specify in your “hit man’” scenario that these people used your backyard to approach the Sims’ because moving across your yard in dark clothing would make them “impossible” to see? Which is it? How do you know this? Why would you believe your yard had anything to do with the crime?

        I also find it curious your statements about having lost knives “years” before near the area they had searched. That reads to me like a possible preemptive strike in case these knives were found and/or in case anyone were to notice that you no longer had known knives in your possession (because you discarded them after the crime) – “Oh, I lost those.” Right.

        Then there’s your obvious disdain for Joy Sims, bizarrely referring to her as an “ugly little girl.” Your later attempt to explain that terminology away as some type of reference to an obscure “joke” is weak. Your admittance that this was a private joke between you and MaryCharles to refer to Joy Sims is very telling, especially considering that she was the one shot AND stabbed, which signifies a special focus given to her.

        Then there was your whole characterization of MaryCharles as sometimes being “homicidal” and having violent tendencies.

        I know you’d never admit it at this point, but I am not convinced you are innocent.

    • Amanda
      I like your idea. A simple action causing years of chaos! I also like Vernon’s idea. My first thought about why 3 hit men? Maybe they were expecting all 5 family members to be home?

      • NewEyes says:

        Yes, KettahStrange Amanda made an excellent point … I too briefly thought about a murder suicide then remembered like Amanda there would be a gun lying around. (I never contemplated if someone might hide to spare the other daughters or to insure a life insurance policy would perhaps not become null and void – True, maybe somewhere at some time someone has made that ‘decision’ for surviving family members. Not wanting to add additional burden to a survivor.)

        But, more importantly I either recalled or read; which ever came first at the time, that – that theory has an even bigger flaw or obstacle to overcome. The binding and gagging. ????

        I’m saying ‘no’ on that until someone can show it’s been done multiple times before. I think the family’s whispering and perhaps Mrs. Sims quitting her secretary position may have been more relevant. But, not in the way people thought. (After the pastor used her ‘first’ name in the eulogy.) They worked together … of course he might know and use her ‘first’ name … even if only nerves and not formally sociably acceptable … to the older crowd? Or, was that someone’s cover and they made more out of it than was necessary …. point blame. Or, grasping at straws if clueless. Not to mention Helen didn’t even ‘work’ for pastor Roberts but, his assistant!

        Thus, someone in the community was working OVERTIME to spread rumors and quickly.
        Good or Bad. Right or Wrong. Intentions I can’t speculate on without knowing who and knowing that’s ‘normal’ on some level … even more so in cases such as these … with no rhyme or reason.

        And, does Vernon’s ‘hit men’ theory seem logical? At the very least ‘professional hitmen’? No, of course not. But, he was a kid when this happened. Thus, one must remember through the eyes of a teenager … that might seem rational … if a ‘hit’ … or done by grown persons. If grown men (plural) were involved … that is a ‘hit’ … but, I would agree with others this was not CIA level or professional. But, I couldn’t rule out that they hadn’t done something similar before as well. If from out of town some planning … thus, skill level … was used.

        And, the 3-4 men finally did start to be a possibility as well … true, no one can speculate if the killer or killers knew how many people would be home. Two adults at least for Mr. and Mrs. Sims and at least 1 more if kids were home. No one screamed after being gagged but, there wasn’t hardly any screaming before either. Maybe one … one time. All that TIME to bind and gag – allegedly ONE gun; a pistol not a shotgun or rifle, allegedly 2 teenagers, Mr. Sims WIFE AND CHILD in danger, and NO APPARENT STRUGGLE from 6’4″ Mr. Sims (and 5’8″ wife)?!

        Thus, would the teenaged daughter returning home have ‘hid a gun’ … (and not LE) … again, if not involved herself with someone else … NO because of the binding and gagging. No need to. She would have ASSUMED someone else left the weapon behind. Pretty sure.

        And, no disrespect to the Sims Daughter what so ever; or even suspicion, … but, every investigation begins that way. SHE was there; first person to discover the body. She automatically becomes the first person of interest (along with the person who drove her home). Their time lines say no – not them. But, they too are each other’s alibi. *Not like people had cell phones back then and could ping their route. But, she was babysitting for a MARRIED couple … I believe we’re good. The wife could vouch for times (or have become very suspicious if he and she were gone for an extended time period on the night of a brutal murder). But, it would be interesting to know if police; in such a brutal homicide, at least double checked – with the wife. They should have regardless of what they felt. Why? Flash Forward 50 years later and we might not have that WIFE … as her ALIBI. That’s why you clear unlikely persons and suspects too!

        LE can’t predict which cases will be solved vs become a cold case at the crime scene.

        No matter how much we all believe every case WILL BE SOLVED and in a TIMELY manner.

        Unfortunately …. now, obviously … that just doesn’t always happen.

        But, true when viewing real or animated photos of ‘this’ crime scene … one might tend to say … wait … could this possibly be a …. suicide (murder suicide in this case)? Because there’s no visual reminder of the binding or gagging. And, officials stated ‘tight’ not loose.

        Could 2 or 3 non recognizable people from out of town entered at gun point and only tied, bound, gagged and blind folded everyone – at least the parents? As to not recognize the last person entering (a shooter – if local) just in case anyone survived? Would that even explain why one person left behind … what Vernon said. And, why did Joyce not close her eyes? Fighting to stay alive after the fact or did she recognize the killer and died staring at him/them? A pretty far fetched theory … but, if only ONE person was actually willing to pull the trigger … and others not willing to pull the trigger… ???

        I would consider it might take MORE than one ARMED gunman to subdue the family that quickly or quietly. But, as far as the investigators have lead on … only ONE gun was fired. So, ask why? And, Mrs. Sims may have kicked someone or moved in a way unexpected.

        Same or different ballistics? If different … someone wasn’t capable of a fatal wound?

        If the same … does that suggest someone was shot BEFORE Mrs. Sims? (Mr. Sims? More relaxed, still on the bed, not expecting when) … Helen fought back the only way she could?

        In hind site … isn’t it odd … that FBI; or anyone, hasn’t attempted to find the order of the deaths? In case it could help … with determining the motive …?

        Did they check the knives in the home? For a match to the wound (or just perhaps missing)? That’s needed to rule in/out speculation, theories and motives. Can’t assume knife was brought because neither was rope (allegedly).

        And, that’s where someone’s either skill or ‘confidence’ entered into the equation … knowing they didn’t have to bring rope or anything with them to bound/tie/gag. Thus, perhaps not their first rodeo. (No offense intended by that usage of that word.) But, oddly confident if it wasn’t.

      • Kimberly Anne Donaldson Smith says:

        I just found out about this case from a lady in my church who lived in Tallahassee at the time. She still believes till this day that this was initiated by the Pastor. She believes that it was the Pastor who had this set up to have this family killed.

        It also seems that no one would have assumed that the two older girls were babysitting at someone else’s house that night. So restraining and killing a family of five would be very difficult.
        Especially in a family neighborhood with a lot of people, traffic on the street, and people coming and going and walking their dogs or whatever most people do in their neighborhoods at night. It has been stated it was a night when a lot of people were up and tuned into the ball game at FSU so the night may have even been more active than a normal night.

        It only takes common sense to know if you are planning on wiping out and entire family (supposedly of five!) and you want it to go quickly and quietly as possible; You are going to bring enough people with you to and kill all of the people of the home.

        I do not have a dog in this race. I have never even been to Tallahassee, and after all I have read, I do not think I want to even visit. I do find this case fascinating and I do want to follow this and keep reading about it and the different theories.

        I would like to see it solved. Whoever did this needs to be brought to justice. Whoever did not do this needs to be cleared so they too can have closure. They also certainly deserve an apology.
        The two remaining Sims girls and the family that raised them and any other family members of the family deserve to have closure to this as well, and need to have some sort of Justice as well.

        I feel sorry for children who will never know their Grandparents or their Aunt. I feel sorry for the falsely accused. I feel sorry for the survivors. But even though Campbell was a good cop, does not mean that he handled it all correctly. He was young. Curiosity Seekers did walk through crime scenes back then. Cover ups that may have been happening may have just been an effort to not look so inexperienced. Or maybe it was something else. Only time will tell and that is only if the crime is finally solved some day.

        I pray to God that this will be solved for the sake of ALL involved.

  21. TheMolecularScientist says:

    This case is interesting. And as PLH states Vernon really feels sinister, especially when he gives all this detailed version. I also think that the young girl was the main target. The knife wounds confirm this. Her parents were blind folded, presumably before being shot, a sign of weakness from the murderer as he didn’t want his eyes to meet theirs. The young child though, if we go with the reports that she wasn’t blind folded, had met his eyes. Furthermore a single shot in the head clearly wasn’t enough, she had to suffer even more, to experience the full rage and humiliation.

    I truly believe that anyone is innocent until proven guilty, but what strikes me as odd is the fact that Vernon writes this:

    “I was slightly worried that they would find the jack knives that I had lost as a kid camping in the area of Stiles pond. I was worried that they might find the large hunting knife that I had lost there years earlier. But there could be no identifying marks on those knives. And certainly there would be nothing to connect them to the Sims murders because I had lost them years before the murders.”

    Why would he do that? If there could not be any identifying marks on these knives that would link them to him, why even mention it here? Why even mention that he was afraid of something that has zero relevance to the case?

    There are several other things he write that fills me with an eerie feeling. How he ends one post by telling friendofsims to give him his adress and meet over one night and talk over it. It feels so strange and creepy, because, why chose a night to talk bout the crime?

    • Greg Destruction says:

      Because people work in the day, you dolt? There’s stuff to do. Night is when people do social things. VBF has to be at least 70, I’m sure he meant 5:30. Keep grasping at straws.

      • TheMolecularScientist says:

        Wait what? You called me a dolt? Well if you give me your adress I can come over one night so that we can talk about it! 🙂

      • Mitchell says:

        Very presumptuous and very, very classy.

    • NewEyes says:

      Don’t forget he was a grown kid …. and then an adult …. he very simply could be trying to be honest about how he might have felt back then … but, with knowledge he now understands and it just comes out ‘wrong’ in writing. Yes, it’s almost like combining the kid version with the adult version and getting mixed signals. But, not in reality. Or, at the very least it might not be.

      Look someone was attempting to suggest he had no feeling or so sure he had gotten away with a crime. Be that the case or not. But, if someone knows they haven’t committed the crime of course they still might be nervous or irritated; at different points, … if police start draining a pond … he should have been nervous about more than that but, as a grown kid he might not have been. Most people would be nervous if ANY weapon was found …. theirs or not … knife or gun. Any gun … from any crime? Even if he knew he was innocent and or could even prove his innocence. Not to mention was it laughter, nervous laughter … or laughter among (many) kids … totally unrelated. Heck is it even true?! Jesus … people were going as far as suggesting Mrs. Sims was having an affair … when other’s said she probably wouldn’t even know what one was. And, in the same breath NEVER suggested that Mr. Sims who worked at FSU … at a College University for WOMEN at the time … and 8 years Helen’s senior … was having an ‘affair’? Was that a ugly ‘dig’ at Her reputation for being so young with an almost 17 year old daughter? She was only 34. (Plus conception and gestation) Due the math. PEOPLE were just being foul mouthed and speculating. And, scared I’m sure. But, other reports have different ages listed for Mrs. Sims to be fair.

      For the late 1940’s or 1950 it was very common for girls to wed straight out of high school; if not sooner. Nothing unusual.

      Thus, obviously the town was full of talk and tall tales. Senseless and hurtful speculations. About numerous people. Why would you expect that they would have spared Vernon? They didn’t. Right or wrong … they didn’t.

      Has anyone even considered this chaos could be mostly created because an officer wanted to protect their reputation over a screw up? A major screw up? Ever consider that an officer from the get go didn’t ‘trust’ Vernon and Charlie for the wrong reasons … so completely ignored his comment about seeing a car altogether? And, it’s been about “ego” and CYA ever since? Because he didn’t.

      They weren’t supposed to be out together … much less having sex together. PRESUME for a moment that’s true … (and that’s why their stories kept changing or didn’t match initially) …


      Can you prove or even show where was even put out ….

      … that night or even the next. Because I imagine it should have been. Given there was a game and Fair in town on the nights of the murder.

      Can someone show or admit this was to be closely guarded information and that’s why the papers didn’t mention it? We are dealing with a period in time where people just stuck cars in unattached garages for years and no one really noticed. If the need arose. Crimes have been solved decades after the fact because someone inherited property. Cars were discovered & connected to crimes.

      Always the off chance …. some have known the car existed and by whom. LE or not.

      Or, two grown kids/teenagers could have ‘remembered’ to make up this alleged ‘fake’ detail about a car ( as some see it) BUT, some how ‘forgot’ to go over a plausible ‘alibi’… for themselves?!

      Vernon admitted this detail immediately to police. It’s not difficult to imagine why he wouldn’t mention it often through the years … well, not until after 50 years or so had passed.

      A little thing called self preservation could be at play …. think about what happened on 10/22/66 and then presume what he saw and reported is … real. 50/50 if he should repeat it over & over.

      Stop acting like this ^^^^ didn’t happen.

      Stop acting like the investigation was complete …. just maybe it wasn’t. … and don’t forget this didn’t happen until 1969 (three years later). And, very few type murders had happened anywhere in the Nation prior.

      Or, did Tallahassee have their very own? Did ‘Morticia’ have a real interest? And, why? And, for how long? How ‘different’ was 1966 from 1963? Why didn’t she look or act like Jackie Kennedy? And, does that make her a killer? Possible more kids than we are aware were saying/doing what MaryCharlie did and said. And, if she had any special ‘problems’ she may have said things more often. And, she could have been saying and doing all of this when others in the 1960’s were doing their dirty deeds too. Wrong time – Wrong place.

      But, being only 2.5 when this happened I can only profile the era and surrounding events and possibly some persons in the area … from one extreme to the other.

      No wonder Campbell didn’t say anything or say anything until he had more proof or a name. A place to start. Vernon has always maintained he didn’t recognize anyone in the car (presuming there was a car). Lucky him. Or, just smart on his behalf.

  22. If these walls could talk says:

    When referring to “the ugly little girl” you said perhaps the photo didn’t do her justice.

    That isn’t about any weird story of an incest family… Which by the way, that isn’t a joke and is just creepy. That’s an expression of being sexually attracted to a child.

    Here is a possible story line:

    Male suspect became infatuated with little girl from the clear sight line from his bedroom to her house. Girlfriend finds out and becomes insanely jealous. The two plot to murder the family. Male suspect holds the family at gunpoint while the female ties them up. The wife tries to run and is shot in the leg. After the three have been shot the female suspect in a fit of passion continues to stab the girl out of jealousy.

    Was it you?

  23. UnansweredQuestions says:


    Why after all this time are you feeling the need to engage? It feels as though “doth does protest too much.” If you had nothing to do with it, why add fuel to the fire? At that time of night, in a quiet neighborhood, you could of walked across your backyard and entered their home without anyone noticing. As a Tallahassee resident, I know that the residential areas can be very dark and extremely empty at night. There are also ways to muffle gunshots without a silencer. It could of sounded like thunder, florida has storms constantly. It could of sounded like a car backfiring. And you would of had time to get rid of the weapon.

    Here are some important questions:
    Why did you single out the young girl, calling her ugly like Mary Charles? An inside joke is more than crass to use while defending yourself. It seems as though you lost your temper and used a phrase that you and Mary had both done so. Men when rejected often lash out and insult a girl/woman’s looks. Especially men with violent tendencies.

    The crime was sloppy but special attention was given to the young girl. Stabbing someone when you have a gun is suspicious. Especially if she was already dead. It signals a special anger or hate for that victim. Who would be so angry at such a young girl but a pedophile that couldn’t have her or a girlfriend that was jealous of how you looked at her? Close family member would be the only other feasible option for such an act of aggression. There was an intimate reason she was stabbed.

    You were walking home around the same time as the daughter that found them, but didn’t see her, hear her scream or hear any commotion?

    I think you murdered them. The young girl humiliated you in some way. Maybe she rejected you, maybe you tried to molest her and couldn’t go through with it. That crime was not committed by a stranger to the family.

    I think you killed them, then you called your mother from somewhere other than your home, I think she told you to come home and your parents helped cover it up.

    Getting a gun isn’t that hard, people do it every day illegally. And I imagine with the bars and company you kept, it wasn’t impossible. With your father’s profession, you would have a basic knowledge on how to either build a DIY silencer or maybe you were also able to purchase one as well.

    Your desire for older women was maybe a mother complex. Maybe that provides you some comfort, but it doesn’t rule out pedophilia.

    • Greg Destruction says:

      Armchair detectives and psychoanalysts are out for blood. Dude’s trying to clear his name because y’all keep using it. He’s repeatedly poked holes in motive and location, the narrative he’s been accused of involved possible psychic dreams and descriptions of houses in other cities. It sounds like the lore and the desire to have closed a 50 year old case makes any of us willing to say “hey, autistic septuagenarian, you occasionally weird me out.” Despite nothing but a good story (not only no physical evidence, but refutable circumstancial evidence at LEAST as easily picked apart as VBFJr’s Dodge Valiant story – the location of the banana thicket, apparently crucial to providing cover, access to the weapon, motive), you’re so willing to hang this man. I can only hope one day you are accused of something you probably didn’t do for 50 years, if only to see how you respond when your real name is printed on a blog with a link to a reddit thread seen by thousands. Maybe you’ll overshare in hopes of establishing your innocence too.

      • JW says:

        Could not have been a dodge valiant, because did not make the Valiant. That cat was a Plymouth product, later on Dodge made a comparable car known as the Lancer later to be renamed as the Dodge Dart.

      • Mitchell says:

        I do not know Mr. Fox and have no dog in this fight. If it weren’t for his rather bizarre ramblings, I believe I would probably concur with your stated premise, which I understand to be that we should forgive any oddities displayed by Mr. Fox as a youth and leave the old man alone.

        As far as I see it, the only suspicions most of us have, specifically those of us whose only point of reference for this case may be a couple of articles, are largely due to the repellent nature of Mr. Fox’s comments he has recently contributed here and elsewhere.

        You, Greg of Destruction, seem to view Mr. Fox’s comments as statements of fact and those who suspect him of these heinous crimes as his untrustworthy antagonists. Mr. Fox has used this forum to spin his contradictory yarns and crassly insult a little murdered girl that many believe he may have been involved in killing. He has contributed nothing that is verifiable. It is a practiced fantasy.

        Fox casts himself as the Fonze, cruising on his motorbike and sticking it to ladies all over town. He views himself as the true victim here, not the murdered family or orphaned siblings. His plight was inflicted upon him by “that ugly little dead girl” and his “homicidal old lady”. The sweet hereafter also conspired to railroad him by using his old lady as it’s conduit. Fox himself is the only one who saw who the killers. The lone witness to their escape! He barely escaped with his life after coming face to face with souless contract killers!! They transmitted the details of their just completed scheme to Fox via osmosis so he could tell tale of their triumphs.

        It is a rather convoluted story, no? An exercise in the absurd. Keep in mind Mr. Fox’s own words have painted this vivid picture. Is he The Fonze, James Dean, or a gumptionless Charles Starkweather? He mayn’t be a murderer but one thing is certain; he is not a very bright man.

    • Bill Watrous says:

      UnansweredQuestions: What you said. One hundred percent. Especially being so defensive and repeatedly denying any involvement, plus the lame polygraph explanation. Then the knife story added to the hit man theory, that’s just plain crazy. If you didn’t do it, you surely wouldn’t make it look like you did, or would you?

    • UnansweredQuestions, I believe you have pretty much summed it up perfectly. Myself and several of my friends couldn’t agree with you more. And Mr. Fox, after reading your posts on here, it doesn’t take a moron to figure out what you are all about. Sad, so very sad for the family and sad the investigation after all these years has been mired in typical politics this state is well known for. Hopefully FDLE will come to a conclusion soon, but I doubt it. I don’t care how many years its been, NOBODY deserves to die like that.

  24. j.w. says:

    One big problem there was no Dodge Valiant in 1966, there was a Plymouth Valiant, Dodge did not make a companion car for the Valiant until later and it was known as a Lancer, and later became a Dodge Dart. I too lived in the neighborhood and I remember a banana type tree in the Fox yard back then. I also remember Fox and his girl friend yelling at the cars as they drove down Gibbs Drive in the days following the murder. Even back in the day people considered you and your girl friend had something to do with this crime.

    • Vernon B. Fox, Jr. says:

      Thanks for the correction. I’m too introverted to get out and yell at people driving by. It must have been someone else.

      VBF, Jr.

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      I was incorrect about the make and model of the car that I saw that night. I was never a car buff, and I didn’t know what car it was. I just recently looked at photos of several different cars. The car that stopped as if to pick me up that night was a white 1966 4-door Plymouth Belveveder.

  25. Vernon B. Fox, Jr. says:

    Everywhere that I wrote “Dodge Valiant”, I should have written, “Plymouth Valiant.”

    VBF, Jr.

  26. Vernon B. Fox, Jr. says:

    For those of you who have not yet looked at the documentary of the Sims murders by FSU student Kyle Jones, go to your Facebook, click on the globe and search “641 Muriel Court”. Scan down the page and you will find the You Tube video. This is the older version, and has not yet been replaced with the video that includes my interview. Time is running out to see that version of Kyle Jones’s video. It will soon be replaced with another video which includes me talking to Kyle at Pass-a-Grill beach.

    The video revealed something to me that I did not know about. In the interview with 3 women who were young girls living near my house on Voncile at the time of the murders, they spoke of seeing Vernon looking out his kitchen window towards the front of the house (the Voncile Ave side). The window was actually our dinning room window on the Voncile side of our house. There is a solid brick wall that goes up to the height of my nose, and above that are glass windows without curtains or blinds (not needed because of the height of the windows). The person that they saw and thought was Vernon Jr. was a bit darker than I am, had no red spots of acne, had thicker lips than me, a larger nose, tufts of hair curling up from the ends of his eyebrows, was about 100 pounds heavier than me, and was 30 years older than me. It was my dad. Still, they were sure that it was Vernon Jr. looking at them, and he was there for hours. He would be there many different days. It was not me. That spot was my dads favorite drinking spot. Nobody else in the family would take his spot. He would fill a 12 ounce tumbler with whiskey, no ice, no water, and no mixer. He would look out the front window and finish off the 12 ounces of whiskey and then go fill it up again and drink some more. He was a happy drunk. He would continue until he passed out. I’m sure that he was too drunk to know what he was looking at, but he enjoyed getting drunk and looking out the window.

    When they talked about seeing his face from the nose up looking out that window, I knew that they did not recognize me on sight (since I know that I would not take my dad’s drinking spot). They thought that my dad was me (but we are quite different in looks). That made me realize that the prowler reported to be looking at the Sims girl was possibly not just a made up vicious lie (like I thought that it was), but possibly only a mistaken identity of some stranger who was never reported to the police in time to get caught. The undercover dog patrols just did not catch him. I wish the police had caught him. Then the mistake in identity would become obvious.

    VBF, Jr.

    • Sleuth says:

      I have just a couple of questions.
      1. Per your previous writings, you grew up in the home located at 644 Voncile Ave, which as you stated is located at the southwest back corner of 641 Muriel Court, and not directly located behind the Sims’ home. However, per the Leon County Property Appraiser, your parents also owned 642 Voncile Ave up until 1980. This home IS located directly behind 641 Muriel. Is this correct?
      2. Why would your father stand all evening to peer out of a nose-high window inside of his home? And, HOW was he able to stand that long if he was downing tumblers of whiskey? One would think that after the first tumbler and a brief look out the window, he would have to, or want to sit down.

      Thank you for the clarification.

      • Chris says:

        Sleuth, you may want to go to Leon County Clerk of Courts and search the records on this. From what I’m looking at it appears his Mr. Vernon Fox did not purchase this property until 1980 from the neighbor that was residing in it and from what I can tell was or had moved to another state, since the address they listed was out of state. It also appears Mr. Fox turned around and sold this property to someone on July 17, 1981. So my guess on this would be that he was trying to help out a neighbor who had moved to another state and would not be around to deal with the sale of this property. Also appears the previous owners carried back a mortgage on the property, which to me is another sign Mr. Fox was trying to help them by assuming responsibility on this property until he could get it sold. You however can search these records yourself and decide what you think happened here, but it does not appear at all that the Fox’s owned this property at the time of the Sims murders.

      • Vernon B. Fox, Jr. says:

        They bought the house next door after Herman Stretch (he was in the Austrian Army during WW II, and dad loved to get him to yodel for visitors) for my aunt Edith Chapman who died of cancer later.

        He drank a lot. When he was near passing out, he went to bed. It was amazing to see how much he could drink. Even when he was under house arrest for a DUI conviction he would drink and look out the dinning room window. He couldn’t take off the locked ankle tracking device, but would get mother to buy him two cases of bourbon whiskey so that he always had an open case and a full case on hand. I. W. Harper was his favorite, with Southern Comfort a close second. I don’t know why, but alcoholics have their favorite spots to drink, and they follow the same drinking rituals. Some have a favorite barstool, others have a favorite easy chair, dad had his favorite spot and favorite glass.

        VBF, Jr.

  27. friendofsims says:


    Which lover’s lane did you go to with Charlie that night?


  28. Friendofsims says:

    Was it the lover’s lane by Stiles Pond?

  29. friendofsims says:

    Why not stiles pond and the dirt road? It was closer. And very familiar to you and Charlie.

    The story about the lovers lane makes Charlie look like a liar. Because she said she drove from the movie to the drop off and straight home. And she said it was 10:55 when she got home. I wonder what Charlie thinks about what you’re saying and how it makes her look? And what she would say if she saw the quote about “homicidal Charlie”?

    Maybe Charlie needs to do her own interview and tell her side of this.

    • Vernon B. Fox, Jr. says:

      In the mid 60’s, the woods around Stiles pond was inhabited by homeless Viet Nam veterans with PTSD. It was a dangerous place, and never a lover’s lane.

      VBF, Jr.

      • Brad Olson says:

        Anyone with direct knowledge know if PTSD Vets hung out there and that if they spent nights there?

  30. friendofsims says:

    But Charlie liked to go there, didn’t she? To birds woods?

    She buried that box of letters and poems there, right?

  31. friendofsims says:

    I wonder if Charlie will recall this one: you, her, sitting in her car, watching the deputies drain Stiles Pond. And sharing a private moment, a private joke at the deputies’ expense. It was pretty funny, wasn’t it?

    Then there were other silly details … like who checked “In Cold Blood” out of the library … They were looking in the wrong place. Again.

  32. Justice Is Coming says:


    You stated earlier that you and Mary Charles were at Levy Park. Now it’s Dog Lake? Which is it?


    • Vernon B. Fox, Jr. says:

      Both. Levy Park around 7:00 PM, then at the movie, then Dog Lake after the movie, and then arriving back in the neighborhood after the murders were committed.

      VBF, Jr.

      • #Justice4Joy says:

        Vernon, just to help clear your name, I was wondering if you could remember around what time you went to the movies? What movie? What movie theatre?

  33. New to Tallahassee says:

    Where was Stiles pond back then? I understand it no longer exists, but in relation to the street?

    • Justice Is Coming says:

      Stiles Pond is behind Trousdale, correct?

      • Interested Reader says:

        No. That area behind where Trousdell is now was called Stiles pasture; it included all the land the Tallahassee Mall/Centre of Tallahassee before that was built in 1971. I think Stiles pond was up there immediately behind where the Northwood Mall/Centre is now. Of course that building didn’t exist either at the time of the murders (built in 1969).

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      Travel East on Monticello from Gibbs (or travel West on Monticello from Monroe) to the bottom of the hill. Turn south on Boone Blvd at the bottom of the hill. In 20 yards you are at the location of the dam. Continue south and you are going through what used to be Stiles pond. After Stiles pond was drained, the earth dam was bulldozed over to make the roadbed for Boone Blvd.

  34. Chris says:

    Oh my goodness, I was just wondering what branch of law enforcement you guys work for that continue to quiz this man about a crime that happened 50 years ago and I feel sure he has already answered plenty of these same questions all those years ago?

    I for one can’t even tell you what movie’s I watched 10 years ago, let alone 50 years ago.

    You guys need to leave this case to the proper authorities and stop with all of this. If you think for a minute your going to help solve this case then you need to think again. Even with a confession law enforcement needs evidence to prove a case. There has been numerous cases over the years of people confessing to crimes that later it was found there was no way that person could have done it, so not sure what you guys with all the questions are trying to prove. But from where I’m sitting this is harassment to continue this and really makes me wonder what your motives are.

    I really wonder if an when someone is arrested for this crime and it’s not who you guys think it is if all of you are going to be willing to apologize. I feel sure you’ll all be ready to proclaim you knew it all along if it is who you thought though. By the way I don’t know Vernon nor did I know the Sims.

    • Bonita Springs says:

      Hey Chris Fuck off. Leave this to the locals and mind your own business this is professional government work! Piss Off!

      • Chris says:

        Bonita Springs, you sure do have a potty mouth on you and if you don’t have anything better to say or add to this conversation, maybe you should look for a different topic to get involved in.

        I am local, born and raised here. My father worked in law enforcement his entire career here and if you had bothered to read some of the other comments you would know this. I also worked in law enforcement as well as two of my brothers, so as for your comment about me minding my own business well it is my business as well as anyone else that wants to make it there business. You must not realize this is a free country and anyone is allowed to take a interest in a crime, especially one I remember very well as well as remember my dad driving us over there to show us where it happened. And yes he was working in law enforcement at that time and we were living here at the time but not on that side of town. Not that this is any of your business.

        I won’t lower myself to use filthy language like you did, but take your own advice and apply it to yourself, if you don’t have something good to add to this conversation.

      • NewEyes says:

        Why Bonita Springs tell Chris to ‘piss off’? You’re not tired of all the unsolved crimes in Tallahassee? Especially recently. You’re okay with or proud every time LE can’t or won’t bring closure to a family?

        It’s frustrating when LE doesn’t live up to their end of the bargain … we all know. But, that’s no reason to harass a person that you have no evidence against. If you want to be ‘angry’ about something be angry about ‘homicides’ that are called ‘natural death’ by LE only for them to finally admit 5-6 years later to the family … we don’t really know (“you’re right”) it might not be but, nothing we can do now. *At least with the Sims case they knew it was a ‘homicide’ immediately. And, have never changed their opinion on that as far as we can tell. At least there’s that.

        Without any evidence what so ever … you expect people to: Believe
        1) Vernon was a pedophile (and weirder only when a kid)
        2) That he got ‘caught’ by Charlie looking at this little girl (when, how)
        3) She became ‘jealous’ of this (although in her opinion the little girl had ‘nothing’ to look at)
        4) So, Charlie devised a plan … she would kill the little girl (and family too) either for less competition or punishment … no one really states why other than that’s her ‘plan’
        5) But, needs someone to help her with the ‘plan’ … so she enlists Charlie … who you know is allegedly attracted to said little girl … but, were not suppose to wonder if that would be a conflict of interest to do so for him.
        6) And, amazingly … Vernon … says okay … let’s do it.
        7) And, even more surprising they get away with the crime.
        8) And, people are convinced the first responding deputy who later became the sheriff for decades knew the whole time it was them …. and didn’t care. Not one bit. Not enough to make an arrest. What … was the sheriff a closet pedophile or something?
        9) Vernon is instantly ‘cured’ of pedophilia after the murder and asks Charlie to marry him.
        10) Charlie is more than willing to forgive & forget AND has no reservations about marrying someone she believed to be a pedophile …

        They looked into Vernon, Charlie, pastor Roberts, a piano repairman – maybe some others?

        In other words not a whole lot of people … not really.

        It’s much more likely that they missed …. someone responsible … than they nailed it but, didn’t do anything about it. Why do you feel Vernon has so much ‘pull’ with the local police that he could get them to turn and look the other way. He was a kid. Why so special?

        What rational reason to you have that THEY would ever do that for HIM?

        Absolutely not … Tallahassee is/was a sleepy little town … there would have been way more than one maybe two homicides on average per year (if that) if that’s what you believe LE did.

        Now, that the Sims girls are older and more mature … we should be asking them what they can recall that could possibly help … I’m sure no one really asked enough questions back then out of common courtesy. And, things that may have initially seemed irrelevant at the time or overlooked could shed new light if shared with the proper people. We don’t even know if LE has even kept in touch with the Sims family after their parents brutal death. TRUST they don’t always.

        [Possible they’ve had lots to say or tell and were waiting on LE to call them but, they never did.]

        I’m sure that would be disappointing for the Sims girls to know or find out after all this time … that they believed someone was actively working the case or even remembered …. when perhaps not. It’s happened before. Heck I wonder how often they called LE to see what’s going on … what’s taking so long … and what did they find out about each suspect?

        How have the Simd handled this … are THEY doing okay? Especially knowing that for over 50 years they still don’t know who did this to their parents (and little sister). Much less why.

        But, there is a difference between revenge and justice.

        One seeks the truth (beyond reasonable doubt). And, one does not care about truth.

        Bonita with so many other possible and valid suspects in the town (then) why weren’t any of those people looked into?

        Pray someone looks into the case honestly and openly this go around.

        Have you considered other families in the area attempting to solve similar unsolved crimes for years need closure too … and, thus they don’t want a rush to judgement or tunnel vision.

        If the best lead in over 50 years is two kids who weren’t supposed to date; much less have sex, snuck out to a movie and then lover’s lane … and then lied or felt they had to lie … so no one would find out they were in lover’s lane (not the movie … they were willing to come clean with that part pretty quickly … and a person selling tickets verified they were there and the time they said for the first movie) …. then maybe someone should rethink their investigative skills.

        Or, taken better care to see that evidence at the crime scene was sent for testing.

        Possible there’s been a peeping tom killer in Tallahassee all these years and people just assumed they were safe when Vernon and Charlie got married and left town.

  35. JW says:

    Stiles had 2 pastures, the 1 where the mall sites, and one west of Monticello Dr and Voncile It ran from the dead end of Voncile to the other end at Joyner Dr. that dumped out onto Old Bainbridge Rd,.We use to cut through this pasture to get to Tharpe St. from the Town and Country subdivision. Always wondered why they never searched that area. You go either head west on Tharpe or go North on Old Bainbridge Rd.

  36. jin850x says:

    Mr. Fox, I have a question regarding the investigation that I was hoping you could shed some light on as I have been unable to find any useful information online. You state that the investigators became fixated on you and Mary Charles as suspects despite a distinct lack of evidence tying you to the scene. Admittedly, there is no physical proof and there are no witnesses implicating either of you. So what initially led the investigators to suspect the two of you? It can’t simply be due to the proximity of your houses. If that were the case, why not name the neighbors across the street or next door as suspects? Dozens of people were questioned and yet the investigators honed in on the two of you. I would be extremely interested to hear your thoughts on why you were singled out. With a lack of physical evidence and no witnesses than the next logical step would be to investigate those with a possible motive. Clearly, something led the detectives to believe one or both of you had some type of motive. Even if they were wrong in believing so I would like to know your opinion on what led them to your door, so to speak. What planted the seeds of suspicion in the first place?

    • NewEyes says:


      First, we should give Vernon a chance to reply as he me have more details than what’s been put out on social media since the case was reopened but, if you can’t come up with a rational or plausible answer then you 1) haven’t been following the case very closely and truly don’t know and are just curious or 2) you don’t understand Tallahassee very well; then or now.

      “Fixated” seems like a strong word (and I disagree that they were) but, for someone being questioned or accused of something they didn’t do and so young … perhaps it might feel that way. Or, who knows maybe they were .. then or now. The same way they and the whole town was ‘fixated” on pastor Roberts. So, much so that they kicked him out of town and blamed him for years. And, if the investigation had been more honest and forthcoming it’s possible he was to ‘blame’ … just not in the manner he was accused. He was a football game and they even reviewed the cameras to prove it. Did you ever ask why? Or, are you just going to go with the gossip of a ‘possible affair’ and shrug it off as a untrue and a nothing burger. Do I believe they were having an affair. (No) But, then why was the town so “fixated’ and hell bent on blaming a pastor? And, their pastor. One who knew the Sims. There are rumors or facts that point to pastor Roberts as supporting segregation even in 1966. (THAT’S HUGE – THAT’S SIGNIFICANT). What’s missing is if the Sims leaned more towards segregation or civil activists. If they leaned more towards civil activists in 1965-1966 THAT’S HUGE – THAT’S SIGNIFICANT.

      Even more so on that PARTICULAR NIGHT OF EVENTS … EVEN MORE SO IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA – SIDE OF TOWN… EVEN MORE SO AMONG THE CIRCLES THE SIMS MAY HAVE RAN IN AND OR PEOPLE THEY KNEW OR KNEW THEM .. EVEN MORE SO WITH A PARTICULAR SITUATION GOING ON IN TOWN LOCALLY CONCERNING A SPECIFIC HIGH SCHOOL (did they ‘miss that’ because simply a different HS than Leon) … EVEN MORE SO WITH A PAFTICULAR FAMILY IN TOWN … THAT LIVED VERY CLOSE BY … AND HAD JUST MOVED TO THE AREA THE YEAR BEDORE… WHO MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE HAD CONNECTIONS WITH THE NIGHT RIDERS. Or, possible the experts brought in from around the state may have thought pastor Roberts had ‘connections’ with the Night Riders. (That was common practice back then … KKK … worked to get their way by convincing Churches/pastors to secretly support their efforts.) Hence, perhaps that’s why locals put the squeeze or anger on him. Was there an ‘issue’ currently going on in Tallahassee during the time of the Sims murder? You BET. Only it involved a different High School … so, did LE or other state agencies and experts entertain that motive? Not really? They focused on the Sims and the Pastor who supported segregation. (Thus, did nosey people and busy bodied who knew Pastor Roberts was a PERSON OF INTEREST IN THE MURDER – perhaps ASSUME it was “about” an affair or could a guilty party in town have helped that false “rumor” along? You bet.) So, were LE perhaps close … but, no cigar. Decided pastor Roberts wasn’t involved thus, closed the book and walked away. Had they decided this looked like KKK but, in their mind cleared pastor Roberts (a member of their church) thus, left whom ever was sheriff at the time with NOTHING (no suggestions or clear leads … when obviously there were some) and a very young deputy who arrived at the scene (who perhaps was never told anything about KKK or anything of that nature) … and all he has is the memory of a ‘weird’ teenage girl who kept following him around that night after the crime bugging him with questions because as luck would have it … she was into that .. weird sort of thing. Of course THAT would stick in Campbell’s mind and probably haunt him that no one saw what he saw … at the time. To add insult to injury the couple weren’t allowed to date (much less have sex; premarital sex at that). Do I condone ‘lying’? NO. Do, I think it was plausible that it happened (about the date/sex) … given the situation they faced? Absolutely. I would almost state it was a GIVEN … especially, on her behalf. (Presuming that it happened of course.) Did Larry Campbell as a kid assume/presume pastor Roberts was being checked into because of an ‘affair’ because that’s what everyone was saying at the time … AND … he was never privy of higher up information back in 1966 when lead investigators and state specialists came to town? Possible.

      But, do we totally fault Campbell all those years later … for keeping an “eye” out on this couple? No. Was that Campbell’s hunch or theory .. that they did it? Maybe. (Maybe not.) Don’t forget he has ALWAYS … maintained that he had OTHER suspects in mind. It’s also possible he kept a close eye out on them because he didn’t want anything mysterious to happen to them. But, needed more information … if he was going to protect them. Or, did he never even see that or entertain that thought. (*IF … “the car” was there … he should have. To be honest.)

      Hypothetically, EITHER ONE of these situations could have been correct.

      In hind site … 50 years later … it’s shocking that we don’t have more clear evidence (other than ‘perhaps’ pastor Robert’s connection or beliefs) that anyone was CHECKING INTO THAT AS THE MOTIVE. That’s staggering information. And, not in a good way.

      And, when those/these crimes are STILL HAPPENING IN TALLAHASSEE 40-50 YEARS LATER … and Charlie and Vernon are no where in sight … can’t be blamed … and never went on to commit any weird homicides or activities in general for over 50 years … then what? And, if you say what about Charlie … she has displayed some homicidal activity … or at the very least abnormal rage … then doesn’t that ALSO explain (and confirm) why Vernon’s father didn’t want them to date in the first place? The reason he at 20 or 21 … had to sneak out to the movies and lover’s lane. And, why she/he … they … lied in 1966 about one movie vs two movies. Remember … they REALLY DID GO TO THE MOVIES … at least per the witness (employee) who worked there at the time.

      Is there any room for reasonable doubt with no eye witnesses who can put them there and the state’s refusal or lazy efforts to come up with forensic evidence to put them there? Yes, reasonable doubt is all an honest, ethical, and moral citizen is left with in regards to this couple.

      Would I like to see a confession or some forensic evidence and much more testimony if they … DID … do it. ABSOLUTELY … about this homicide … and another 1 or 2 as well (circa 2011) It’s frustrating as HELL … when LE miss details or obvious evidence/clues and walk away from a crime scene. Imagine if they hadn’t taken any photos at the Sim’s home? Imagine if they hadn’t gathered up any of the evidence lying around … or searched the home/doors for clues?

      At least in this ‘case’ LE were intelligent enough …. to wonder/speculate … this IS a homicide.

      But, I truly sympathize and empathize with the Sims girls … why on God’s Green Earth aren’t they solving these crimes and investigating these crimes as they should?! Especially, this one. It was more than obvious that a homicide took place … no guess work … no one trying to confuse the family and or perhaps the police by putting things in places that they did not belong to confuse/hide the situation at hand.

      NO, whom ever murdered the SIMS wanted to people to know … (something) A CLEAR MESSAGE … Joyce or Children in general (because 2 were baby sitting) were the key.

      Honestly, it’s an ASSUMPTION that the other 2 daughters wouldn’t have been murdered in the same way as … Joyce … if home. Someone came with at least 5 bullets (fact – that we know) … but, with the skill to bind/tie/gag with out a need to bring the materials to do so. Confident.

      If you believe that this crime was ever given the proper attention that multiple ADULTS could have and most likely were involved … you’re only kidding yourself.

      Forensically … no one has ever shared a time of death. Until recently when it’s been revealed multiple people heard (may have heard) gun fire at ~ 10:45pm. First, confirm that. Because I thought that’s when someone testified they heard a SCREAM …. but, the Sims … were bound/tied/gagged. What did the blood evidence show … as timed of death?

      Did Vernon witness …. CIA/undercover agents … PROTECTING THE SIMS … who messed up?

      Don’t act like it’s the first time a witness has seen a strange car within minutes of a triple homicide even involving children … and local police don’t want to touch it with a 10′ pole. And, in Tallahassee. And, an almost identical homicide. And, only about 2 miles apart. And, almost on the exact SAME date. Only … 45 years apart. (45 years plus 30 hours) Truth is stranger than fiction. And, apparently police don’t want to solve that homicide as well. (Or, the one 4 months prior?)

      And, do they oddly enough … have the same motive (on some level) as the crime in 1966?

      Oh, yes … please do … open back up the Sims case …. give us the motive once and for all.

  37. friendofsims says:

    Well, I will be really interested to see Vernon’s interview. Fascinating.

  38. friendofsims says:

    I wonder what Charlie will say when she sees it.

  39. […] (and was not) there at the crime scene. Especially worthy of examining with the M-Vac would be the identical granny knots. If you are not clear what a Granny knot is check this […]

  40. Kyle Jones says:

    Really great to see so much interest and passion about this case as we approach the 50th anniversary this year. I’d like to personally invite you all to the premiere of our documentary, 641 Muriel Court, on October 27th at the Moon Nightclub. Doors open at 7pm, and the film begins at 8pm. We’ve worked painstakingly for months to deliver the best telling of this tragic story to date, and we’re excited to share it with all of you. The film is one hour long and contains primary source material and interviews from key subjects related to the case. For more information you can go to our facebook page, 641 Muriel Court.

  41. Pam says:

    I was one of Joys close friends. I moved from tally several years after this happened. I have no way of watching the documentary since I live out of state now. I would love to be able to see it. This horrific act is one that so many of us that lived thru that time will never be able to forget. The pain of losing a good friend is almost as if it just happened. I do not know how anyone’s brain let’s you do what they did and still live with themselves. It is just beyond comprehension. I only pray that no one will allow someone to get away with such a cold blooded murder for the sake of politics. These people did not deserve to be butchered and have it be swept under the carpet. I think all of the family fiends and loved ones of this family deserve justice and closure

    • Vernon Fox says:

      No, they did not deserve to be murdered the way they were. No one should get away with murder because of political connections. There should never be a cover-up of known murder or child molester. I assure you that I am neither. I had nothing to do with the Sims murders. I did not know any of the Sims. I did not even know that Joy Sims existed until after the murders. I did not stalk or molest her. Vouyerism claims against me are false. Child molestation charges were never made, and claims of the issuing of an arrest warrant for me based on child molestation charges are false and without foundation. There would be official records of an investigation and warrant if either ever was made, and the warrant would still be enforceable. There is no motive for me to murder the Sims. Any stories about me that suggest anything like that are pure fiction or a mistaken identity. I was never in their house. I was on a date with my Gothic girlfriend at the time they were murdered. My fingerprints were not in their house. In 1989 the FDLE had an interview with me and took a palm print to go with the fingerprints. They never told me about the stories that Mary Charles gave to Larry Campbell in 1987. I did not know about that interview until 29 years after she spoke to Larry. I never had a .38 handgun like the one used on them. My DNA cannot be on anything found at the crime scene, and that is why I gave a voluntary DNA sample to Sgt. Dawn Dennis on this past September 12. The results of comparing my DNA to the DNA found on evidence at the scene will clear me when it comes in. It may take a few more months to finish the work, but I know my DNA cannot be there. Hopefully the murders will be found based on the new technology which has recovered DNA from the articles which were at the crime scene. I do not deserve the rumors, gossip, and hurtful claims which have been made about me these past 50 years.

      Vernon B. Fox, Jr.

      • Pam says:

        Vernon. In my post or reply I never mentioned your name. This horrific crime hurts as much today as it did when it happened 50 years ago for everyone that knew this loving family. It’s as fresh in our hearts as if it just was then. Something that will never be understood. I do not know you and I did not know Mary Charles. But if you decided to respond to it I’m going to tell you how I feel about it. My comment was about a friend and her parents. But somehow you felt compelled to turn it all around and make it about you. Shame on you. I didn’t care what you had to say. I have read and reread all these comments and posts over several times trying to understand some of them. Some of your comments and scenarios are almost laughable if it wasn’t such a serious subject. 3 Mafia hitmen in Tallahassee Florida in 1966. Are you serious??? Let me pick apart some of your other comments. Claim to have had a great childhood with a loving father butt you say that he was an alcoholic that stood at the back window every night getting drunk. In my book that is not a happy childhood. Been there done that and it certainly did not make me feel like I was in a loving family environment. One thing that has always baffled me is how to crazy people find each other. Because what you are saying and commenting on this site makes me think that you are batshit crazy. I agree with another comment that you do protest way too much.. you put your foot in your mouth so many times and change details so many times that it’s ridiculous. Trying to explain things to make you look innocent is certainly not what came across. You tried to explain the knife that they might have found in the pond were you worried they did find it so you had to justify it being there? But let me tell you the part that really pissed me off. You had the comment about Joy being the ugly little girl. Not once but several times. And then you turned around and tried to make it like it was a private joke with Mary Charles. That comment should never have been said as a private joke or not. Unforgivable. She was a beautiful girl on the inside and out and you have no right to talk about her like you did. I could sit here and write down some other things that are just ridiculous but that would take me a long time since there were so many. You and Mary Charles where are the prime suspects for a reason. And in my opinion you were involved. But again that is how I feel. Joy and her parents are a great loss to all of her friends family and loved ones. Whoever did this got to have 50 more years of their own memories to share with their family. Joy didn’t get the chance to grow up and go on dates, to her senior prom, or walk down the lane with all of us at graduation. Joy’s sisters were robbed of so many lifetime memories. So good luck with trying to make others feel sorry for you. The only reason that I can figure out that you all of a sudden had to try to explain your side of everything is maybe because you are laying out some of your defense in hopes that somebody might believe you. I hope this case gets solved for the families and loved ones peace of mind. And I pray that there is a special place in hell reserved for them also

      • lilladyj says:

        Please answer the pervious question regarding why you and MaryCharles have been the PRIME suspects for 50yrs?

        Since you so diligently stand behind this man’s innocence, regardless of the fact that he has been the PRIME suspect for 50yrs…maybe you have some incite you’d care to share?

        I can’t imagine he and Charlie are the PRIME suspects with no supporting evidence for 50yrs. As we all know the police do NOT share all the evidence so they are able to confirm people’s stories/confessions ect…


  42. Chris says:

    Lilladyj, not sure where you get that I so diligently stand behind anyone. What I diligently stand behind is everyone has a right to be innocent until proven guilty and none of us have a right to point a finger and claim any different. As for me sharing anything you won’t see it happen. My incite is exactly that, it’s my incite and that won’t be posted for public opinion.

    I still have family in law enforcement and therefore I am not about to post information about solved or unsolved cases.

    There are many reasons why law enforcement does not divulge evidence. A lot of the evidence at that crime scene was probably contaminated due to the amount of traffic in and out of the crime scene. Evidence collection 50 years ago and evidence collection in today’s standards has changed considerably, but one thing today that is done that wasn’t done back then is the crime scene is more protected.

    I personally hope this case is solved one day and that whoever is responsible for it is alive to stand trial for it, but until that time I refuse to point a finger at anyone. I would feel awful to do that and find out I was wrong. And just so you know, I am not related to, nor do I know Vernon or Charlie and I would never defend someone who is guilty, but until that is proven I won’t be a party to pointing a finger at them either.

    • Vernon B. Fox, Jr. says:

      The DNA tests which will clear me were not available until recently. I gave my voluntary DNA sample to Sgt. Dawn Dennis of the Leon County Sheriff’s Office this past September 12. The results should be in within a few months. If I am telling the truth, then the results will clear me. If I am lying, then the results will get me three death sentences.

      • veronon is a murderer says:

        We know you and Morticia did it and its only a matter of time until you get done for it you crazy bastard.

  43. davidl says:

    Any estimate on when the DNA test results will be ready? Frankly, I hope its not Mr. Fox I don’t know him, and I think some of the things he has said here are suspicious, but I also think people love to jump to conclusions about guilt.

  44. Pam Bohlen says:

    Seriously! Some of the things he says are so far fetched its funny. And a lot of things that he also said are not funny. I don’t understand after all this time, why would you come on here to defend yourself with all these stupid stories. I would think that if you didn’t want to have all these comments that accuse you of doing it, then why even get on here. That just gives everyone fuel to add to the fire. If you wanted your life to be lived in peace and quiet that is not a way I would accomplice that. Where is Charlie, it seems like she is laying low and quiet because she probably did not want all this stuff brought back up. Maybe she was the smartest of the 2. Hopefully the dna will help if not too old.

    • WeGotJoeyGarner says:

      Just admit it vernon – you’ve been talking shite about what happened and spend years creating a narrative where your innocent and the story peices together – you’ve had 50 years to perfect the lie

      Just tell the truth not the delusion you created

  45. Brad says:

    Mr Fox,

    As I read your responses to this early on, I immediately suspected you might be on the autism spectrum. Later on, you commented you indeed are on the spectrum and have ADD. Being a parent of an autistic child, I often hear “jokes” that are not funny to people not on the spectrum. But people with autism will often laugh and repeat them. So I immediately recognized your “ugly girl” comment for what it was.

    But what it doesn’t explain is Charlie. She is the originator of that comment, no? You refer to her as “homicidal.” To me, an outsider and someone new to the case, she seems an instigator and to have a very dark personality – possibly anti-social disorder.

    I wonder if you have considered the possibility she may have committed this crime and fueled suspicions about you?

    You went one way, she went the other that night, right? What if the timeline of the crime is wrong and she did it to get your attention or to enact some fantasy in her head?

    Again, you call her homicidal. Why? One might call someone angry or hate filled, but homicidal is on a whole other level. Respectfully, that implies you suffered severe abuse in your relationship with her.

    To end, I’ll say I am not asking because I need answers, but maybe you do. I wonder what if the murderer was hiding in plain sight? I haven’t read anywhere of her being a suspect independent of you. You might ask yourself if she ever jokingly admitted to the murders? Or maybe she threatened you with the same if you didn’t comply with something she wanted? On reflection do you remember anything that might tie her to the murders?

  46. JJ from Florida says:

    I’ve been reading ALL of these comments here and SO many of them remind me of the proverbial Salem witch hunts of the past ……..
    Imagine this. if you will ……. in your very young years you’re suspected of a VERY horrific murder crime …… your name and your family is linked to the crime …WHY? ….. because you live nearby, you have a sort of strange girl friend, you’re autistic during a time when NOBODY really understands what Autism is (so you’re sort of strange in the neighborhood, maybe?)….
    Law Enforcement realizes you didn’t do it but you were questioned….. and now YOUR NAME is linked to the crime…….. but you didn’t hurt anybody! and now in the eyes of the public ……
    YOU ARE FOREVER A SUSPECT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The years pass, you don’t look too often but NOW the internet is a big thing! There are articles EVERYWHERE linking your name to the crime….. over the years a sort of paranoia sets in and finally a STRONG, URGENT desire to clear your name overtakes you……. and you KNOW YOU DIDN’T MURDER ANYBODY!!!! and you want the world to know….. “I DIDN’T MURDER ANYBODY!”
    This is what I get from Vernon’s posts…… NONE of the knowitalls posting here have one shred of REAL evidence against this man…..NOTHING, NADA…….. You better seriously hope nobody points a finger at you one day and you receive the same treatment this man is getting…

    FRIENDOFSIMS – You DON’T KNOW SHIT FROM SHINOLA and need to shut the hell up!!!! Seriously, GIVE US SOME CONCRETE PROOF! or go home!!!! I sure as hell don’t know and I’ve got the balls to admit it!!!! YOU DON’T KNOW !!!!! You’re just some bored asshole with nothing better to do…… admit it!

  47. davidl says:

    I don’t share JJ’s contempt for the people accusing Mr. Fox, but I agree with his main point. Mr. Fox has made some suspicious statements, but that is a far cry from him being guilty.

    Frankly, I think the “mafia in Tallahassee” idea is borderline ridiculous, but then again, I don’t really know that much about the mafia or Tallahassee. The “ugly little girl” comment is weird, but “weird” is nowhere near “guilty of murder”.

    I have never been in a situation like this, so I can only imagine the pressure. Fox has had this hanging over him for his entire life. He probably thought it was over with, but now its back. I don’t know what it would be like to deal with that kind of pressure. Its probably normal to react in ways that most people don’t consider normal.

    I hope we get some answers one way or another soon.

    • Pam Bohlen says:

      He brought it back all by himself on this blog and when it got to be a little tough for him, he has not responded back anymore. JJ are you just attacking friendsofsims because you seem focused on his remarks mostly. I say to you, until you have had someone that was your friend or loved ones die like ours did, then you can’t say how you would behave or what you might believe. So don’t be such a jerk to all of us that really have strong feelings about what happened and what we believe. Vernon Fox was just as guilty of running his mouth. And if you put stuff out there like he has, he really should expect it to come back and bite him in the butt. He was quiet for all these years and now all of a sudden he needs to let everyone know what he thinks happened. Did he tell all of that to the police 50 years ago? I would not think so. They would have locked him up for being insane. And if Charlie was as crazy as he says, then when she finds out about what all he has said, I would make sure I locked my door and had a very good alarm system. History might just repeat itself.

      • friendofsims says:

        Vernon lied to the police the night of the murders. So did his girlfriend. He lied about being home. He wasn’t home. People saw him out on the street. What he has said recently is far different than what he said in 1966. He’s changed his story. Lies are evidence. Lies convict people all the time. He told the FSU documentary folks there is ‘loving Mary’ and there is ‘homicidal Mary.’ That corroborated what others have said about her. She is capable. Vernon used to chat with friends about planning the perfect murder. When he was in school. He thought about it plenty. No one else has ever verbally attacked the victims but these two. I think that is very significant. Part of the motive was anger and jealousy. They hated the Sims. The Sims were the All-American family. Vernon and Mary had troubled home lives. A lousy time as teenagers. Vernon nearly drooled when he spoke of meeting 8 year old Mary the first time. If that doesn’t give some insight to his inclinations, to what led to this crime, I don’t know what would. Vernon thought with Campbell gone it was safe to talk. He likes the attention. He always did.

  48. friendofsims says:


    Keep in mind Vernon and Mary quickly became suspects in 1966. They were suspects within hours of the murders. TPD had them on their radar screen immediately. There were good reasons for this. One being Mary’s suspicious behavior of going to the scene and seeking out the police just a few hours after the murders. Another was the fact they were changing their story in their first interviews. They were lying.
    Lying about what they did that night.

    Keep in mind Mary’s car was bugged. Mary and Vernon sat there watching LCSO drain Stiles pond. And they laughed about it.

    LCSO could have cleared all this up and we wouldn’t be commenting about it or getting mad at one another. I’m sure we all care about the truth here. We should be mad at the killers who took life from wonderful people. We should be mad at LCSO for doing little to nothing the last 20 years.

    • friendofsims says:

      In 1966 Vernon said he and Mary were running low on gas so they went straight home, back to Parkside. In 2016 he says they drove out to Dog Lake, which is all the way out by the airport. It’s just as far in 1966 as it is today–quite a distance from Vernon’s house. Usually police and prosecutors take note of someone changing their story. So do juries.

  49. Wow JJ! That a LOT of indignant anger on behalf of someone you don’t even know and have no way of knowing is innocent or guilty.

    Psychologists tell us criminals like to revisit the scene of their crimes, even in the midst of frenzied investigation, to perhaps relive vicariously the thrill of the crime. To feed off of the fear, the despair and the horror generated by their act. And perhaps to reassure themselves that investigators aren’t nearing the truth and perhaps divert suspicion and create false trails if they can. Perhaps the killer(s) wants an audience to appreciate his cleverness in committing a crime for which he has escaped justice for 50 years.

    Well in a way maybe this article and the subsequent comments have become in a way a virtual SOC to the killer.

    50 years of holding something in when really you want someone to appreciate your handiwork is a long time to endure. Especially perhaps when you used to have someone to share it with but they’re no longer in your life. Maybe a person ‘got off’ on having a dangerously unpredictable person in their life and when the adrenaline rush of living with that danger is gone, well maybe you have to find a new danger…the danger of discovery and arrest perhaps..?

    Who knows..?

    • friendofsims says:

      Good points. And Mary clearly enjoyed reliving the murders in her interview with Campbell. She was interviewing Campbell as much as he was interviewing her. Mary and her boyfriend were troubled personalities. –when combined they became one, stronger, more dangerous person capable of things they never would have done alone.

  50. friendofsims says:

    Anonymous asked whether Vernon Fox Sr was still teaching at FSU in 1978. Yes he was. He was still relatively young at that time. I don’t believe he committed the crime. Not at all. But law enforcement did tread lightly where Fox was concerned. Fox and others at FSU applied pressure on law enforcement to lay off JR. One member of the LCSO team was a student of Fox and it seems the latter treated Fox with deference as might be expected of a student-professor relationship. Didn’t want to offend SR too much nor offend FSU. In hindsight that particular LEO probably had too much control over the course of this case. Jr was treated with greater care than say the average fellow from say Quincy, Woodville or Coonbottom might have been. Sr was worried about his son. When the cops showed up to question his son. And during the poly. The emotions showed on the professor’s face. He expressed his worry to his girlfriend OUIDA. He worried that his boy WAS with Mary at the time of the homicide. The professor and OUIDA got prank calls from jr and Mary after the murders. Was it a warning?

  51. friendofsims says:

    It is common for murderers to try to involve themselves in the investigation. To offer ‘help.’ To offer theories and explanations. To say they saw a car that might have been involved. There are two people that tried to “help” more than any other. I think we know who I am referring to. And for people that supposedly did not know the Sims family at all, in any way shape or form, those two individuals sure seemed to care a great deal about the case. Mary visited law enforcement repeatedly in 66-67. And it was always, “if I say i was in that house it’s gonna create problems for me.”

  52. davidl says:

    Any results from the dna tests?

    • friendofsims says:

      I don’t know. I wonder if ol Charlie gave a DNA sample. Vernon felt safe his DNA likely wouldn’t be found. And living on the edge, being a suspect again, the car and mouse with LCSO, what a rush he must have felt.

      • Pam Bohlen says:

        I find it interesting that Vernon just all of a sudden decided not to respond anymore. Does anyone know where “Homicidal Mary” is. I don’t imagine that she would be too happy about the things that Vernon has been saying about her.

  53. friendofsims says:

    The one who once was known by the nickname “Morticia” now lives in Jacksonville.

  54. Pam Bohlen says:

    Jw I probably know you. I lived in Town and Country Subdivision

  55. Pam Bohlen says:

    Im a Mock 2 bros

  56. The evidence can be argued either way. Bottom line law enforcement ruined the crime scene to develop and leads or evidence. In cases like this scapegoats have to be developed and if you say enough times that they are not only suspects but guilty.

    • dl says:

      Vic Hernandez

      I agree completely. I don’t know the suspect, and he has said some weird things, but that doesn’t make him guilty. I honestly don’t care that much if its him or somebody else. I’m just interested because I live in Tallahassee and I was able to drive by the house.

      • j.w. says:

        I would say from your comments that you did not live in Tallahassee at the time of these murders.
        The subject isn’t a scapegoat, he was well know to law enforcement for other activities like hobblng the horses in Stiles pasture (Tallahassee Mall area). The day after the murders the actions of Vernon and Charlie called attention to themselves. As far as law enforcement messing up, this was a quite little town nothing like this had ever happened, people were ill prepared to handle this, There was no FDLE, there was just the Florida Sheriffs bureau with a limited staff. The crime scene investigator who lived just doors from the Sim’s murder had to be called back to Tallahassee from another crime scene to start the investigation. Of course before he could get on scene every Law enforcement in Leon Co. had been through the scene, that also included the ambulance attendants. Go ask Rocky Bevis about his interaction with Vernon Fox’s girl friend the night of the murders, he was the ambulance attendant helping his father.
        When you place yourself at the scene and you keep drawing attention to yourself people wonder what’s your interest. When you make statements that people know are untrue the spotlight is going to shine on you and your friend. Having lived in that area before and after the murders I did not go hang around the scene and make a spectacle of myself I wondered just like the rest of Tallahassee what happened when will we know something.

  57. Jeremy Mutz says:


    Wow. That is some new information. Abuse of animals is significant as a precursor crime. Not the first time I’ve heard that brought up in regards to this couple, but the incident with the horses is something I had not heard.

    I will say the Sheriff’s Bureau, although small, was an excellent organization. And they did have another big case at the same time–the Maxcey case in Citrus County. The Sheriff’s Bureau people took 12 hours to process that scene. They were thorough.

    I’d like to know more about the female’s actions the night of the murders, as you mentioned. I know she sought out two police officers BEFORE they made their rounds to her house for the neighborhood canvass. It’s not uncommon for suspects to intrude on the investigation, approaching officers, or hanging around candle-light vigils, etc. Part of that is that they want to know what the police know.

    I think every lead should be examined in this case, and every suspect examined–rule them out, or build the case against them. But these two check off every box. Yes some of it is circumstantial–being weird doesn’t make someone a killer. But an extreme interest in death and bodies can’t be ignored. The circumstantial evidence in this case is powerful stuff. As Oliver Wendell Holmes once said, “memories may fade and witnesses dissemble, but circumstances never lie.”

    We have successfully prosecuted cases without a body, locally. And that has been done many, many times in other jurisdictions. No body, no confession murders go to trial. Here, we have a murder with three bodies and we have numerous incriminating statements — yet no prosecution.

    Jeremy A. Mutz

  58. Jeremy Mutz says:

    I still have hope that this case will be solved. We have tremendous talent in area law enforcement. We actually had commitments from the State attorney’s office, TPD and FDLE to work this case last year. We came very close to having multiple people assigned to this from those agencies. The state attorney at one point said his office would go alone if LCSO didn’t want to proceed. But the plug was pulled in April 2016. This is a new day. New people in charge. I have hope current leaders will say let’s look at this. If we can answer this let’s answer it. The public will be pleased. No one will hold anything against current leaders. The people in Tallahassee will be pleased to have answers. In Jacksonville JSO just made an arrest in a 1974 case. They took politics out of it and solved it. Because in reality no one is criticizing the original people on the case. It’s not an insult to the past sheriff. And you won’t be “stuck” with it. The people will respect that you tried to clear it. I understand elections and you can’t stay a sheriff or state attorney without being smart politically. But something’s are just more important than four or five votes one way or another. They are just RIGHT. Doing something for the people that have waited 50 years for answers is RIGHT. Other parts of the country are showing that politics don’t have to be involved in working these cases or not. A lot of people are about this case. I think they will start to demand something be done.

    Jeremy Mutz.

    • Desiree' Roberts Anders says:

      Well said. The two older girls, whose parents and sister were horrifically taken from them, deserve justice. Tallahassee deserves justice.

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      Episode 11 proved that I did not kill Joy Sims. It also proved that Charlie did not kill her either. Her ring was 1 carat in a Tiffany setting. If she punched someone with that ring, it would cut chunks of flesh. It would have made distinct marks that could have been matched to her ring.

      Early episodes showed lies that law enforcement told. There was a witness who heard the gunshots and saw muzzle flashes in the bedroom window at 10:45 PM. We were watching the credits for Munster Go Home at that time.

      Thanks for ceasing to comment.


      • Anonymous says:

        Vernon, I’m curious about something. You say you were watching the credits for the Munsters at 10:45pm. The handwritten police report from the next day back in 1966 (your account, I’ll remind you) says that you did not stay until the end of the movie. So which is it?

        Also, in 2016 you claimed that you and Charlie went to a lover’s lane before returning home. Is that the truth? Or was it the credits? Or was your handwritten report accurate? Surely not all three can be true, given that Charlie was home at 11:05pm to take her birth control pill and you “remember getting out of her car at exactly 11:07pm”… yet another inconsistency. For someone with such a specific memory, it seems you can’t get your story down on this. So please, for all of us one more time, did you leave the movie early (as you claimed in 1966), stay for the credits (as you claim here) or go to a lover’s lane (as you claimed in 2016)?

  59. Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

    Dear Anonymous,

    It is clear that you would make an incompetent DA. Earlier I had said that we started watching the credits which began with a big red “THE END” and continued with small print credits in red. That was amusing, but we did not stay until the end of the credits and thus we left before the end of the film. We went to watch the first color show that the Munsters did.

    Much later I amused myself by saying that we went to Dog Lake to have sex. Only a fool would believe that we did not have sex at the Perry Highway Drive-in and then drove all the way out to Dog Lake to have sex. That is so funny to me. No detective would believe that tall tale. You could call it a lie, but it was just an amusing tale to me.

    But the main point is that neither Charlie nor I had anything to do. With the Sims murders.

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      Just in case you haven’t heard, there was no DNA recovered from the crime scene evidence, so there was nothing to check my DNA against. But the FDLE has my DNA profile anyway.

      • Nuke says:

        You’re a weird man, Vernon. After reading your replies on this site, and after watching the documentary in which you were interviewed, one thing is for sure: You. Are. Creepy. I’m not surprised people think you did it. I’m really not surprised. Maybe you’re innocent, maybe you’re not, but you’re definitely living in your own world, and not ours, if you think the things you say don’t make you come off as the person responsible for these murders.

  60. Pamela Bohlen says:

    Oh my! Look. The Actor has returned to his Stage. After a year off I guess you grew some more kahuna’s and are waiting for another curtain call. You are absolutely so in love with yourself and admire yourself more than anyone can imagine. Do you really think you can be cleared because you say the exact time that you did things with no way to corroborate it? Who looks at their clock and knows to the minute what they were doing? Your stories change depending on what day or year you are living in your mind. . You are nothing but a lying slimeball. That is my opinion and nothing you say now is going to magically wash away everyones questions or opinions of what you did. You brought all of this on yourself. Why after 50 years would you start trying to persuade everyone that you didn’t do it. You just can’t live without trying to convince everyone how utterly smart and slippery you were and still are. So come on back Vernon, let’s dance toe to toe and see how many times your story changes still. I’m not a 12 year old girl that had no way of fighting you and Charlie off. Did you even look her in the eyes and laugh? I can not even imagine how scared she was or her parents. I hope you rot in a very special hell, made just for you.

  61. Jeremy A Mutz says:


    The case is important to a lot of people, and I hope maybe one day we will know exactly what happened, and it is my hope that whomever did do this is held accountable. Many people were tarnished with this in one way or another, including a young man who was 15 at the time, and the Baptist preacher, neither of whom did it in my view, yet their families had to endure the suspicion, rumors, and so forth. Of course, more than anything, the Sims and Sollie families have been hurt beyond measure. They deserve to know what happened to their loved ones. I want to say something about the evidence: Circumstances do tell us something. They may only give us a small part of what happened, but they are something, nonetheless. Charlie was reported to have missed classes at Madison College the Monday after the murders–that would have been 23 October 1966. It stood out to people. Do you recall that? Why do you think she missed classes that day? Also, DNA is not a static science….it’s getting better. Much better than when this case was first analyzed about 1997-2000. Y23 testing for example, that is better able to zero in and pick up male DNA. In my opinion two people did this. And I would have to say that one subject would be more worried about his (or her) DNA being present at the crime scene, or on the body, rather than the other subject. I think one of the two helped tie the victims and may have used the gun, while the other person, the one with the knife, was a piquer and was the one who left his (or her) DNA.

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      Perhaps someday DNA techniques will be developed which can separate the DNA contributed by law enforcement personnel and others who handled the evidence from the unknown DNA of the perpetrator.

  62. Jeremy A Mutz says:

    We do know another circumstance. The police bugged the car driven by “Morticia.” She and her companion sat and watched LCSO drain Stiles Pond and laughed about them doing so. Thought it was very funny. It seems, out of a number of suspects, only two have ever thought any aspect of this case was funny, or thought it was something to joke about. It is, perhaps, a way for the killers to process what they did, to live with themselves, or perhaps a way to relive and enjoy their “perfect crime.” Homicide has a way of showing up in a person’s behavior, whether they think they can hide it or not. I think that’s why “Morticia” missed classes the Monday after the murders and why she had such emotional problems in the 1980’s and why we have a “loving [Morticia]” and a “homicidal [Morticia]” as was explained by her former husband.

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      That story is false.

      • Jeremy A Mutz says:


        I appreciate your reply. The account that she missed classes came from people at Madison College. Do you think they were mistaken about that? People can get things wrong and if you have other information on that, and where she was, it may help to clear this up. On the loving vs homicidal comments, that came from your interview with Kyle Jones. Am I misinterpreting what you said in that conversation? Finally, the erratic or violent behavior Charlie displayed in Jacksonville is a matter of court record, some of it involved sneaking into a home rather skillfully; I think you’d agree that episodes like that can sometimes give insight into whether a person is capable of a violent crime (I realize that is not always the case). I don’t want to see this case put on any innocent person. That doesn’t help anyone. I’ve tried to set the record straight on CA Roberts, because I think he, to this day, is seen as a killer, and that’s unfortunate where the video evidence cleared him, and Larry Campbell thought he was cleared. Some people still say he committed suicide, and the actual record shows he died in a traffic accident out in TX, and his passing was in no way related to “guilt” over what he’d done to the Sims. Yet the rumors persist. I don”t want to see anyone treated unfairly. But if we can find answers to this case, that would bring some comfort to many people.


      • Jeremy A Mutz says:

        The stiles pond incident–you were aware that pond was drained to search for the weapons?

      • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

        We did not watch them drain the pond.

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      We did not sit in a parked car and watch the LCSO drain Stiles Pond. I do know that they used a pump because the spillway valve did not work. The photos show that they did not screen the muck for artifacts. It appears that they did not do a well organized search of the muck bottom. The photos show a disorganized search. Students of the Archeology Department did much more organized searches and screening of local historical sites. Search teams with dogs checked the ravine near the house, the woods, and the stream leading to Stiles Pond. They found no indication of the killers heading to Stiles Pond. I always thought the purpose of draining the pond was mainly to help prepare the roadbed for Boone Blvd.

  63. Pamela Bohlen says:

    Did I make you uphappy Vernon? I so enjoy all the stories that you spin. Guess we don’t give you the excitement/thrill that a helpless family being slaughtered gave you. Which of the stories are you spinning now?? Where is charlie by the way? If she was as crazy as you say, I would have thought that maybe she would screw up and have her past and reality become a daze. How did you two decide what to tell or not tell when you broke up. Did you swear on a Bible or pinkie swear? Cause it sure seems like one of you could have gotten so mad at the other that it would become a really good way to get even. Especially if she is bat shit crazy as you say

  64. Jeremy A Mutz says:

    We know the timeline in this case, pretty well. Mr and Mrs Sims were seen shopping, at a local grocery story at 7:30 pm. They returned home, and remained there with their youngest daughter 12 year old Joy the rest of the evening.

    We also know something about what was going on in the Sims’ world in the days leading up to the murders. Mr Sims cut short a business trip to return home, which was unusual. We know he returned home early one afternoon, shortly before the murders, which was something he never did. He did so because one of his girls telephoned him, scared about someone in the neighborhood. He had to come home to reassure them. We know that in the months leading up to the murders Mr Sims caught an intruder in the home; Mr Sims was alone in the house and sensed someone was inside; he thought it was his wife, but when he got up to look, a male figure ran from him. We know that Mrs Sims replaced all her underwear in the weeks before the murders; it is possible that a prowler went through her underwear and she discarded them. The afternoon of the homicide, we know that Mr and Mrs Sims were speaking in hushed tones, having a serious discussion that they didn’t want the girls to overhear, yet one of them may have heard the conversation was about Joy.

    Back to the night of the murders…the most consistent witness accounts would put the shots being fired between 10:30 and 10:45. And it would have the killers leaving the house sometime between 10:45 and 11:10. We know, at that time, that there was a dirt road that led from Tharpe to Stiles pond and that there was a well used path from the ravine up into Parkside. A killer or killers could have walked to and from the SIms’ house, easily, without being seen, and could have easily used a car or motorcycle parked on that dirt road. Or they could have easily walked on the streets or left a car on the streets, without notice, since there were parties going on that night with the football game. people weren’t watching out for murderers that night. They could have followed the Postman Always Rings Twice plan for murder– a murder that was casual enough, it didn’t look like a murder or it was harder to solve because of its random and haphazard aspects.

    The football game is important. One suspect said “he’d know the pattern of the victims.” I think he did. Mr Sims was known to listen to the FSU games on the radio. He also liked to watch Gunsmoke. I think the killer took advantage of that knowledge.

    As to who did this. The police, LCSO, and Sheriff’s Bureau investigated the SIms’ background heavily, down to looking through all their receipts, which Mr Sims kept religiously. They had no skeletons, no enemies, and even the man that Sims replaces at the DOE, had no ill feelings toward him. Everything comes back to the perpetrator being someone that knew the family, that knew the area, that probably lived in the area or close by, and who had some anger toward the little girl, or some sexual proclivity that was gratified by means of this crime. The FBI profiler McLaughlin certainly thought this was the case. It is similar to the Bricca murder in Cincinnatti–some personal knowledge, and some personal motivation was at play. It bears none of the trademarks of a professional killing. Some may say the killers may have tried to make this look like a personal or sexual crime. It’s more common for killers to make a case look like a robbery, or look like a suicide, in my view. i think the manner in which this crime was committed provides us with important insights into the drives within the killers, and what led them to do this terrible thing. I think they lived with it, and at times were proud of it, and at other times, were nearly destroyed by what they’d unleashed from within themselves.

    • Desiree' R. Anders says:

      Very well said, as always, Jeremy. One of these days their sins will ‘find them out’.

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      There is no evidence to exclude the possibility that the killers were three men who were dropped off by a car on Gibbs, walked to the house, and were picked up by a car on Gibbs after the murders.

      • Jeremy A Mutz says:

        And the police took that seriously, they ran down the tag numbers that you gave them. for various Valiant and Fury automobiles. However, no one else saw the same Fury or Valiant with one odd feature as you described it in 1966. And later, “Charlie” said it was a VW that turned in front of her. So that was an interesting wrinkle thrown in. VW Beetles and Valiants looked nothing alike. Everything has to be looked at. But I would submit the most likely “parking place” was down below on that dirt road. I think one of the killers returned to that car and drove home unobserved.

      • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

        I was mistaken about the make and model of the car. I looked at many photos of cars last month. It was a white 4-door 1966 Plymouth Belvedere. The shape of the car, the rear passenger door, and the headlights allowed me to identify it correctly.

  65. Jeremy A Mutz says:

    Thank you. I believe that. Whomever did this will not escape the judgment in the world to come.
    But it would sure be nice to know the truth now, what that would mean to so many in Tallahassee, as Joe Mitchell said in the 1987 interview with Larry Campbell and our friend. Some interesting comments on reddit. I wonder if “Morticia” is reading them?

    • Jeremy A Mutz says:

      Vernon, I appreciate that, about the Plymouth Belvedere.

      • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

        Although I did not know it that night, I believe that I saw two of the killers and their driver in the car that stopped next to me on Gibbs by the large tree near Stiles and opened the rear passenger door. They were looking to pick up the third killer, but I was not him. I was not wearing glasses, but the third killer was wearing glasses. I must have looked like him in the dark.
        After I was home in my bedroom, a witness saw the third killer wearing glasses on Gibbs and looking for his ride. The witness thought he was me. The witness was wrong. Just as the men in the car thought that I was the third killer, the witness thought that the third killer (wearing glasses) was me. The witness did not know me well enough to know that I did not wear my reading glasses out in public.
        Mary Charles went a different direction and saw a different car that night.

  66. Jeremy A Mutz says:

    That may clear up what the witness saw at that point. Which way do you think Mary Charles drove, when she was returning to her home (further West on Voncille)?

  67. Pamela Bohlen says:

    Vernon, Vernon, Vernon. And for the 10th time, your story changes. Professional killers would not be so stupid as to let anyone see them. I just find that story so ridiculous. Tallahassee Florida back then was not a place that would ever need professional killers fool. Why would they target a whole family and not just Mr. Sims? And how did one person tie them all up. I know if there was a killer in my house by himself, there is no way that I would just stand there while he put his gun down to tie me up. If I was Mr. Sims, one person would have to shoot me where I stood, not allowing him to herd us into a bedroom to kill us. Mrs. Sims would die protecting her daughter. I’m sure that her being shot in the leg was her trying to go to Joy and protect her. One of you held the gun and the other tied them up. Maybe all 3 killers drove a different car. You are either just an idiot, insane or just plain stupid. I say all 3.

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      My story has not changed. I corrected my error in identifying the car, I revealed details that I was holding back for my defense lawyer, and I added my conclusions about the men I saw. Yes, I am foolish for thinking that you could change your mind when confronted with real facts. Your prejudice against me knows no bounds. The legal system has requirements of evidence and proof that you are not encumbered by.

      • John.hudson says:

        Just a comment on your Friedrich Nietzsche wuote. This is actually a quote by the famous criminal profiler, Robert Ressler.

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      How did a home invasion by there armed men become one man who had to put down his gun to tie them all up?

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      How could you get confused about my story of one car with three killers and a driver who dropped the killers off, left the neighborhood, and returned later to pick them up? How did you get three killers parking three cars at 641 Muriel Ct and leaving the cars parked there during the murders?

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      Let me review my story for you. Mary Charles and I were at the Perry Highway Drive-in that night. After the end of the movie, while the credits were running, we left to go back to Parkside. We arrived in Parkside after the murders, and we had the misfortune to arrive as the killers we’re looking for the third killer (who I think was left behind to tidy up while the other two could meet their ride on schedule). I hope that is not too confusing to you.

  68. Jeremy A Mutz says:

    I think the killer (or killers) told the family that it was “a robbery” and that no one would get hurt if they cooperated. I also think he/she/they had the element of surprise and the impact of two weapons, which quickly made resistance unlikely. The family went along with being tied up, not suspecting anything more than a robbery would happen. This was before Sharon Tate and other crimes that really shocked the nation; long before 9/11…and so people wouldn’t have had the mindset then that we would certainly appreciate now (i.e., we have to fight for survival and we don’t take comfort in the promises of a person or persons who are about the act of a home invasion). I am willing to listen to any facts that would unlock this mystery. If anyone has information I am always willing to listen with an open mind. There may yet be people out there that have information that could help, folks that have not come forward for many different reasons. I will also say the police did take seriously the disgruntled colleague theory, and they took seriously whether some problem may have followed the Sims’ from Mississippi, and they took the scenario of CA Roberts having someone kill the Sims’ seriously. I would look at everything. But I think it will come back to who might have had a reason or believe they had a reason to hate the little girl–because the way the crime was carried out speaks to an intense hatred and anger, and it speaks to some sort of sexual gratification that was achieved (or attempted) by carrying out this crime.

    • Pam Bohlen says:

      Vernon let me explain to you something you might be able to understand. You said that the 2 or more Hitman circled around to pick up the 3rd or 4th one. That would be 1 person in the house to kill 3 people. 1 man. a defenseless woman and a 12 year old girl does not require 3 hitmen. The theory that they left the one man behind to cleanup makes absolutely no sense either. It would make more since they all would clean up the mess instead of leaving one person behind with a possibility of someone catching them or seeing them much greater. If there were more in the house to help kill them I surely do not believe that the Hitman codes would allow one of them to mangle Joy’s body like it was. What possible reason would one of them have to hate her so much?. Also why would one of them pull down her underpants? Are the others going to watch that? Don’t think so. You say that you had to lie about where you and Charlie were after the movie just to make it a game? Why would you make it a point to tell us it when Charlie took her pill? Is that supposed to give you an alibI because she took that in your time frame. You gave several accounts that were supposed to make everyone think that you couldn’t have done it. Looking at the clock when you came home, Charlie taking her pill, watching something on tv. Did your sister and or your parents say you were there at those times? And you did lie about watching them drain the pond and laughing about it. They bugged your car. And in order to be able to do that, they had to have something that would make you two suspects in the first place. Just so many different accounts of what happened with it all. And if you were saving things to tell your attorney that would have been pretty dumb on your part too. I don’t believe that he would let you run your mouth like you have been online. And once again you put yourself in the position that you are in yourself. I watch that documentary and it absolutely boggles my mind while y’all were arrested for it after that interview with charlie. You are a murderer and karma will get you in life and you will burn in hell too

      • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

        No. I said that there were three men in the house at the time of the shootings. I saw the driver and two men looking to pick up the third killer when I returned to Parkside approximately 15 to 20 minutes after the shootings. Since there were no cell phones then, they had to catch their ride on a schedule. I would guess the pickup was scheduled for 11:00 PM. I’m only guessing at why the third man was left behind and picked up later.

        Neither Mary Charles nor I had anything to do with the Sims murders. She never said anything which was actually legally incriminating. If she had, she would have been arrested and charged. I understand your hate, but it is based on lies told by people without any facts and Mary Charles’s false and misleading statements.

    • His humble servant12 says:

      I find interesting they were from Meridian Mississippi and it was on the night fsu was playing Mississippi St.

    • His humble servant12 says:

      I firmly believe the killer or killers new the Sims, no doubt about it, has anyone checked in to Dr. Sims past in Meridian Mississippi, I can’t help but see the possible connection of Florida state playing Mississippi St. There is a branch of Mississippi St. in Meridian as well as Strakeville I believe it is.

  69. Pamela Bohlen says:

    Ok, then again, why would one of the 3 stab joy so many times and pull down her underwear while the others stood there and watched. And why would one of them have to stay behind if there were 3 of them, I would think they would want to get out of there asap to keep from being seen. So 3 killers in the house and 1 that was in the car. Either way there would not be any necessity to have 4 hit men in the City of Tallahassee. If you look at the scene of the crime in the pictures you would see that there was no mess to really clean up. So why should one man have to stay and clean up? I would say that shooting someone in the head point blank would not make too much of a mess. Unless of course the killer that stabbed Joy made a mess while the other ones watched.I do not believe that any of the others would let someone do that to a 12 year old girl. What could they have against Joy at 12 years old to make the crime so much more personal with her. You are correct, Charlie never said anything LEGALLY incriminating. But there was more than enough not so legal incrimination to know that you two did it.

    You losing your Grandson early and your second wife to cancer was karma working at their expense. Although I do not know how anyone would marry someone that had this in his history. But even Charles Manson still had followers.

  70. Jeremy A Mutz says:

    Interesting detail: Jenny walked through the house and discovered the bodies. She walked back to use the telephone and noticed the front door was ajar. It is possible one of the killers hid in the closet near the front door of that house.

  71. Jeremy A Mutz says:

    And then slipped out while she was on the phone in the kitchen. One of the killers may have been interrupted by the car pulling up that dropped Jenny off after babysitting.

    • Pam Bohlen says:

      Also Vernon do you really think that 3 professional killers would let you stay alive after you had seen them up close enough to know one of them wore glasses and what kind of car they were driving? They would have killed you on the spot. Remember? They were professionals. That would not have left witnesses that might be able to identify them. Really stupid theory

      • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

        They sent a private detective to talk to me on Monday after the murders. I talked with him in my driveway away from other people. I told him that I was too startled to identify the men, and the police did not believe me anyway. He said he was wanting the reward money that was sure to come. Since the cops didn’t believe me and other neighbors told him that they believed that I did it, there was no need to kill me. Besides, I only saw some men in a car, and I could not connect them to the murders. If they had killed me on Gibbs, they would have left a trail for the cops to follow. Me being a suspect was a big advantage for them. Law enforcement has spent a lot of time trying to find evidence against me. It must have amused them.

  72. Pamela Bohlen says:

    How would they have left a trail if they shot you outside of the car. How did they know that the police suspected you? it had just happened. You would have been a loose end. How did a private eye even know that you were a suspect so soon right after it happened? What was his name? Oh and why would the professionals tie the Sims up with ties and nylons? They would have brought what they needed stupid.

  73. Pamela Bohlen says:

    You amuse me Vernon

  74. Pamela Bohlen says:

    What’s the matter Vernon??? No answers or theories on my questions?

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      If the cops found my body on the corner of Gibbs and Stiles dead from .38 bullets that matched the bullets from the Sims murder, then that would but a clue that the killers went that way and I was not one of them. But they were smarter than that.

  75. Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

    If the cops found my body on the corner of Gibbs and Stiles dead from .38 bullets that matched the bullets from the Sims murder, then that would but a clue that the killers went that way and I was not one of them. But they were smarter than that.

    By Sunday morning many people thought I was a suspect.

  76. Pamela Bohlen says:

    But the killers did go that way Killers picking up the other killer would not alter the way they were going if they shot you or didn’t shoot you. same trail for the police to follow and It would be the same escape route. And yes it would absolutely prove that you didn’t do it. If you claimed earlier that one wore glasses that would tell me that you were not startled to see that. You can remember exactly what time you were walking home, when Charlie took her pill, when the movie ended, where you went after the movie to the minute. but hey, you changed that story too as a prank. But you can’t remember what a person looked like that was a car door away? How would a Private Eye be hired to talk to you the morning after a late night murder? I guess away from the people means that no one else saw him talking to you.

  77. Pamela Bohlen says:

    hmmmm, No answers anymore??

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      OK, my good buddies JM and PAM, it’s time to shut down this freak show. Just remember, never wisen-up a chump, VBF.

  78. Pamela Bohlen says:

    I would guess that you have run out of scenarios because all the ones that you have given have been so stupid and filled with so many holes that people aren’t buying. Especially me! You are a cold blooded killer and you will probably never be arrested. But you and Charlie will reunite there as a couple and burn in hell together chump

    • His humble servant12 says:

      Has anyone looked into the other murders in ohio, Michigan , illinois and then the zodiac murders all with striking similarities , all worked in either computers.or were ceos for companies like Monsanto and bell and howell, I believe there are copycat sinarios involved I also don’t rule out satanism or organizations above the pay grade of local officers, I would delve into Larry Campbell, first on the scene 24 years old, then his over 40 year career in law eforcement in tally I believe he was covering for someone possibly,

      • His humble servant12 says:

        He has had many accusations about him in the 40 years I’ve lived in Tallahassee.

      • His humble servant12 says:

        Also, since law enforcement will never look into it because the brotherhood protects there own, if any of you are listening, look at the suspects and investigators and look into who was involved with freemasonry , it might shock you, a brother or sister is sworn to protect another and even lie ,steal or murder for another brother or sister, don’t believe me look it up, go directly to the source, Manly P. Hall and Albert Pike.

    • His humble servant12 says:

      Maybe investigators should dredge dog lake or the area therin I know it was a long time ago but might be worthwhile, not saying he did it, but he seems to be grandstanding. also the pond area since Fox seemed very liberal about loosing knives near there , he also radomly motioned dog lake, just an idea.

      • Pam Bohlen says:

        They have done all that stuff already. He gets no consideration from me. He put himself out there when he got on here and started making up all the stupid scenarios that he has. It’s almost like he’s just gloating that he never was charged with the murder. He’s an idiot that got to run around and live his life and have a family of his own while Joy and her parents are buried in the ground and get no chance at any life at al. He’s changed his story so many times and given nothing but really stupid explanations. I guess the one he’s going with his The Hit men theory. That in itself tells how stupid he is

  79. Jeremy A Mutz says:

    His Humble Servant, I agree the other cases may bear significance. For instance, the Bricca murders in Cincinatti took place 3 weeks before this case. It received national coverage, and the victims were bound and so forth. I think the killer[s] in this case would have been familiar with the Bricca case and copied it to some extent. They certainly would have heard about it, in Tallahassee, September 1966. There are many interesting ways to think about these cases, and in fact if you connect the dots (literally) between some of the murders they form an almost straight line from Michigan down to Tallahassee. Valerie Percy and Mrs Bricca were both flight attendants and both murdered within a 2-3 week span in different cities. You can give yourself a very bad headache trying to figure out how the cases from this “summer of homicide” (1966) might fit together. Ultimately, I think they are coincidental and related only in the potential for copycatting. In Cold Blood was released just a few months before the Sims murders and it is as or more similar than any of the other 1966 cases. There were also movies like The Killers (1946) and Compulsion (1959) that may have influenced this crime, right down to the gags and how the suspects followed the investigation.

    Larry Campbell wasn’t the first detective on scene. Two TPD men came first. Did then-25-year old Campbell consciously or subconsciously go easier on the family with prominent FSU affiliations? I don’t know. We may never know. At the time the FSU criminologist was a big deal, and after an experiment to train officers through TCC didn’t last, FSU was the only game in town to get a criminology/police-related degree. The man was a professor and nationally known. Would they (LCSO) have been a little more gentle with him or his family than the average fella from Woodville or French Town? Probably. I do know at one point State Attorney Bill Hopkins told law enforcement, “I’m getting calls from FSU people. Either charge him [the suspect] or lay off.” This person came very close to being charged as the handwritten draft of a Tallahassee Democrat press release clearly shows. I also know that the polygraph was administered in a much more deferential way than what the typical Joe SixPack might have received. Signs of deception were seen, but the criminologist was told “everything’s okay” or words to that effect.

    Leon County has several notable cases that weren’t solved or were ruled “solved” but leave you scratching your head. Granville Baker. David Salters. David Mays. Maybe everything was handled on the up-and-up. But the process hasn’t instilled confidence in the public. For example, in Sims, Mike Wood saying if anyone else touched those files they would have been fired. Or, there is no political rush to look at the case? How does any of that help instill confidence? And in Mays, apparently, some evidence was left untested and the grand jury got to see very little physical evidence. Again, it may have been a good result, but the process resembles a 1940’s B-movie back room meeting clouded by cigar smoke, when it could have been totally transparent, i.e., the grand jury saw everything, and they came back thus. Ego gets in the way, that is a big part of it. Hopefully new people in place will prevent that in the future.

  80. Pamela Bohlen says:

    Me being a very close friend to Joy has left me in a total state of confusion as to why this is not solved. The interview that was made for the documentary made me just shake my head and say WHY were they not ever charged. It is very apparent that charlie was involved with her crazy ass boyfriend and enough evidence was presented. Its sad that in the real world of 1966 there was so many things that went wrong or were covered up. They could never get away with that now. Way to many ways to connect the dots. It needs to be reopened and all that evidence gone thru with a fine tooth comb and give My friend and her family some closure. I just don’t know how someone could live their life knowing what they did. I hope they have nightmares every night. The one thing I can say from this is that it hurts very deeply when I think about it. I just can not imagine all the pain and suffering the family has endured all these years. I see Joy’s face and wonder how much pain she suffered from those two scumbags. I hope that she died quickly from the gunshot wound and not from the pain of a knife. Tell me Vernon, which was it pervert??? I’m sure you won’t respond because you have changed your tune so many times and have figured out that nobody believes you were not one of the killers

  81. Jeremy A Mutz says:

    The case cries out for justice. It would give an entire town a bit of comfort, to know for sure what happened, and who did it. It’s not unsolvable by any means. There is a lot of evidence that has not been talked about, things I certainly won’t talk about publicly. But LCSO has it, and I hope they’ll use it. That includes what can be done with advances in DNA testing–it is A LOT better than it was even five years ago. I agree 100 percent what the State Attorney, Jack Campbell said in the Elijah James case, “a murderer shouldn’t just get away with it because he was smart.” That, incidentally was the first conviction for a homicide without a body in Leon County. That wasn’t an easy case, this one isn’t, but it is most definitely not impossible.

  82. Pamela Bohlen says:

    I have decided to enlist all my friends from High School that knew Joy and everyone else that would like to see this case solved, join with me on a petition and phone calls to have this case reopened. I will not stop until we can let the Sims family rest in peace and all of Tallahassee can see closure to this case. Watch out Vernon, coming for you!!!

  83. MG says:

    Your version of the interrogation does not seem accurate. What I saw was a cop saying she’d maybe go to a hospital, not to jail, and then doing just what you suggested, playing dumb, saying he didn’t know what would happen, and saying the judge would have to decide.

    I’m curious as to why you are misrepresenting the facts? Hope it was just an accident. Or perhaps I’m wrong, but the tape I saw, showed a cop doing a pretty smart thing, suggesting she would just get help in a mental hospital, which might have appealed to her.

    • Vernon B Fox, Jr says:

      And remember that, according to Mutz on his radio interview, law enforcement thought that circumstances indicated that she was the one that punched and stabbed Joy with her left hand. No deal would have been made.

      Larry was wrong. Both of us were fans of the Munsters, and we were at the Perry Highway Drive-in watching “Munster, Go Home” until the credits ran at 10:45 PM.

  84. PAMELA L BOHLEN says:

    Munsters/Monsters close enough to each other to fit you and Charlie. Who looks at their watch to see what time the credits are running on a movie. You are such an idiot. The Monster rears his ugly head once again.

  85. Janis Baumrucker says:

    Thank you. Reminded me a lot of myself.

  86. Ladybugdog says:

    I keep reading and learning about suspects getting eliminated due to “comparison of his fingerprints.” Yet our main suspect that people seem soooOOoooOoo adamant commited these murders, and who has given palm, fingerprints and dna to law enforcement, has not been compared??? My opinion, is that surely he has, in fact, been compared, because it would be *completely* irresponsible if he weren’t by now. I think the reason he hasn’t been publically cleared like the others, is because the forensics *don’t* match, but law enforcement doesn’t want to divulge that. Let us keep thinking we have our guy, just not enough to make an arrest all these years later, so we can keep our false sense of security. I say, Baloney. The Golden State killer was caught indirectly by one of those genealogy websites, so undoubtedly they are able to rule in or out our main suspects based on forensics at this point, considering they had no problems doing that with Tommy and the suspect before him, based on those unmatchable prints. Having a gut “feeling” about who we think did it based on circumstanal evidence and odd behavior, gives us that sense of security that we know who did it, we are safe if we stay away from him, and therefore we don’t have to face the chilling reality that something so horrible and unsolved is still, after fifty effing years, the result of a faceless phantom. Because, you know, if Vernon is publically cleared, we are all in trouble now. We are left with the unsettling fear and anxiety that we don’t know who did it, and that unsettling fear of the unknown phantom doesn’t jive well with our narritive and desperation for a resolution. Our primal instincts to protect our families in the sanctuary of our own home are once again lost if the isn’t the gothic peeping teenages from across the way.

  87. PAMELA L BOHLEN says:

    I am adamant that Vernon Jr did it. Have you read all of these posts? Why does he try so hard to clear himself when nobody was bothering him at all. He put it out there himself. Why would he want to do that. NO one was asking him any questions until he decided he wanted to tell 10 different tales as to what happened. How do you know exactly how much they had to comparel They did not have a way to compare a lot of things back then. And the Police Department botched a lot of the crime scene. Gloves of course would not let anyone leave finger prings or palm prints. He loves the publicity, he seeks it out untill he gets called on it. He just moved to another site and put himself in the middle of that debate until he got called on some of his comments again. He deleted his responses and went back to his pathetic live. But I have no doubt that he will rear his ugly little head again, somewhere

    • Ladybugdog says:

      Yes, you’re right. I can see it both ways, it is so frustrating. I followed the McStay family murders, where the dad’s business partner gave countless interviews, helped organize searches, and was not afraid to talk to the cameras. I totally believed in his innocence, because I could not believe a guilty person would insert himself so much with the case. Turns out, he was tried and convicted of the McStay family Murders, I was played for a fool. So that very well could be happening here, and on the other hand, I can see the frustration of his being accused of a crime for 50 plus years, and the desperation to clear his name. I wish more than anything this case would be solved, either way. But I don’t understand how they cleared other persons of interest by forensics, yet they can clear or match Vernon. Why, in the documentary, did they clear other suspects saying “prints dont match” yet they can’t do that here?? Also, Vernon said he submitted dna recently, I am wondering if that is true and what has become of it.

      • PAMELA L BOHLEN says:

        No reason for Vernon to bring it all up and try to prove his innocence to anyone. He is the one that started this whole debate and put himself out there to prove himself innocent. Why? No one was bothering him at all. 3 hit men in a truck, that let him walk away after they saw him?? really??? Then he tries to implicate that Charlie might have done it??? I would give almost anything for this case to be solved and the killer (s) to pay for their crime. They were after Joy. Why would hit men want to massacre a 12 year old girl, pull her panties down, hit her across the face with a ring??????? They proved the Preacher was innocent of the crime. And again why would a preacher want to do those things to Joy? He was having an affair with someone other than her mom, not Joy’s mom. Then you can look up Tommy on google and see what he did to the girl he murdered. He was the total wackhead that did a horrific thing to his girlfriend. They proved he did not do the Sims murder either. They had enough to prove him innocent and I believe what Jeremy Mutz said about them having enough evidence to go to trial. Someone is sitting on this bs and it’s heartbreaking that we could do something to close the case and give some of us closure, especially the Sims family. Reread his statements again and really try to understand how crazy this lunatic is. Maybe one day Charlie will read them and see how much he is trying to throw her under the bus in some parts and will come to see the little man, Vernon Jr. also listen again to the pod casts that Jeremy made. I have talked to Jeremy and that is why me and Jeremy started the Facebook page for Joy. Hoping something or someone will remember anything at all that might help a closer look once again.

      • Jennifer Becker says:

        That is terrible. I literally read every day on my Facebook new feed of cold cases from the 1960s and 70s being solved by new DNA technology. Genealogical DNA is a huge breakthrough, most notably which caught the golden State killer, and is being used every day to solve cold cases. I firmly believe they have the answer in those evidence boxes and someone new needs to come in, open it up, and put this to rest with a solid conclusion. This case has haunted me, I’ve listened to every podcast, read every article, and lurked every forum. I just can’t accept that it remains open.

      • Marla says:

        Ummm. Charles Merritt has not, as of today, been convicted of murdering the McStays. I’m not sure what trial and conviction you were referring to in your February 2019 post above.

  88. Ghost Queen says:

    I am starting to work on this case. The first thing I plan to do is head to Meridian to pay my respects. I will be doing a series on YouTube, search for Ghost Queen. I invite anyone interested in contributing to contact me on YouTube, Facebook (Heather Queen (Ghost Queen), or Twitter (GhostQueenPara). Happy to share my phone number via dm.

    • Jennifer says:

      I hope you can get this ball rolling. It seems every day I see another cold case is solved by geneological dna. I know we have the answer right in front of us.

      • Ghost Queen says:

        Yes I am doing best, I am in Louisiana so I am not too far from important locations in the case and trying to contact some people. Obviously I am hoping for some “extra” help as well. It is a busy month for us, but hope to have the intial installment ready soon. Give a search on YouTube for Ghost Queen Paranormal. Thanks for your support.

      • Jennifer says:

        Awesome I’d love to see a resolution to this, this has haunted me along with the bricca murders on Ohio around the same time.

      • Ghost Queen says:

        I contacted V and was hoping for a response. I am receiving new computer today and about to get started on this case. I can’t imagine I am the first to notice what I have and just hoping I’ve missed it somewhere.

      • Jenny Becker says:

        I have been obsessed with the case for years, although it happened before my time. My opinion may be in the minority, but I think the reason this case has not been solved yet, is because it was NOT Vernon who committed it. If his DNA could be linked to the crime scene in any way, I think we would have known by now considering he hasn’t ventured very far and has made himself more than accessable since the murders, and several other suspects were dismissed by DNA. So, hypothetically speaking, let’s say it turns out not to be Vern…. Uh oh…. Then who??! This means we are dang-near back to square one with a whirlwind of suspects and the unknown, and we really have no idea who slaughtered this family. And I suppose after all these years, being back at square one would be a difficult pill to swallow, especially for law enforcement and us who were/are so deeply and relentlessly convinced that Vern is the answer.

      • Ghost Queen says:

        Charlie?? I did a few videos on YouTube about this, check out my channel, Ghost Queen…I will be doing more! Personally at this time, it is my opinion it was Vernon and Charlie that committed the murders together. I reached out to Vernon, he did not respond. Thanks for your input!

      • Pam Bohlen says:

        He did it. Cant change my mind no matter what you seem to believe. He puts himself out there so he can still gloat. Just doesnt want to be taken out of the spotlight. He thinks he smarter than everyone. He’s not. You read this whole blog and you can not believe that he did it. He hides from me and Jeremy because he cant explain it all away. His theories are so totally screwed up. They are laughable to me. the hitmen is the dumbest one. He has quit coming out to debate these theories. but I would bet if he could be put back in the spotlight for some kind of glory that he wants for himself he would hop right back on the egotistical trip that he loves being in. WHAT ABOUT IT VERNON. COME BACK AND TELL US ABOUT THAT PERFECT MURDER YOU GOT AWAY WITH!!!!

      • Ghost Queen says:

        I feel it was probably him and Charlie together.

      • Ghost Queen says:

        But I agree with you. I think he was involved, everything he does reeks of it, lol.

      • Jenny Becker says:

        Maybe you’re right, it is frustrating to think if he actually did it, he could not be connected by DNA by now. I am not so sure, either way, but this case needs to be solved regardless. It’s not about our theories being right or wrong, I think we all just want the truth, even if it’s not who we have been adamant about for decades. I look at Vern one of two ways: he’s either the biggest sociopath on the planet who thrives off the attention he gets and the excitement of reliving the horror every time he tells his story, or he really is just relentlessly trying to clear his name because he didn’t do it. There’s no in between.

      • Ghost Queen says:

        True. I feel he is too deep in to not be a part of it. That’s my take on it. And you know he will be reading this as well, lol. Sorry Vern. 🤷‍♀️ Definitely should have been solved, and seems to be collusion by the authorities to not do so.

      • Ann Huskey says:

        Ghost Queen, the house 642 Voncile is on the market. Feel free to contact me if you get into Tallahassee.

  89. Paige Carroll says:

    Ironically, my mother at the time worked with Dr. Sims. Also, mother graduated with Sheriff Larry Campbell from Leon and later worked in sheriff’s office with Sheriff Hamlin. My mom was at that fateful FSU game. She has numerous times talked about the Sims’ murders. Still haunts a lot of Tallhassee residents. Especially the natives and locals to Tallahassee.

  90. Todd Greene says:

    Sounds like to me they can’t bring the killer to justice because the Leon County Sheriff’s Dept is hiding something. They really screwed up the crime scene and the investigation. Mainly because Tallahassee hasn’t seen anything like it until then.

  91. Joni Teller says:

    Leon County officials have made it abundantly clear that this case will never be solved. It certainly could be, but certain asses have to be covered and to them that’s more important than justice for this family. These officials are corrupt in their soul and justice takes a back seat to their power plays. It’s disgusting.

  92. Under the streetlights says:

    I saw you standing there. Week after the killings. You were standing in the sand. Great footprints. You were admiring you work. I was outside across the street. Calledto my folks to call the cops. You left by walking through their driveway. It was behind the Shadducks house. Got a good look at you and you know it.

  93. Michael D Farley says:

    My grandparents lived in the house behind this one on Voncile Ave. My uncle is Vernon Fox. I have never been told of this story, I just accidentally ran across it. I can see why I was never told. I must find the book.

    • Pam Bohlen says:

      Who is your mother? I remember in all his ramblings Vernon talking about his grandson that was killed in a motorcycle wreck. I dont think he ever talked about any other family members. I would think that there is not too much a family member couldn’t find out about what happened if they wanted to. If someone in my family did what he did then I know that there would be no way that anyone in my family would not know about it. U can read this entire blog and know just about everything you want to know. He burys himself so deep in his egotistical ramblings and really loves the attention he got for it until Jeremy and I started calling him out. Heartless and empty in his soul. One day I hope that he suffers the way that the sims family and friends suffered and still do. He did it and I hope that he burns in hell

  94. Ann Huskey says:

    I am responding to this – “The nine days Helen Sims lingered on death’s doorstep were a wasted opportunity—from the moment she entered Tallahassee Memorial authorities broadcast the irreversible nature of her vegetative state.
    Leaked erroneous reports of Mrs. Sims’ recovery would have furnished an effective pressure tactic
    and interrogation tool—the belief Mrs. Sims was up and talking may have caused the assailant(s) to flee town
    or confess in a bid for leniency.
    Yet if such a strategy was employed I can find no evidence of it.”

    My mother was an ICU nurse who cared for Ms. Sims. She says that they did leak false reports of her recovery. Not sure if her memory is misleading her but she said this independently of any questioning about it specifically. I merely asked her if she remembered the Sims case and she remembered it well because of her station as a nurse at the time.

    • Pam Bohlen says:

      I am sure that case was very hard on your mother. Can not imagine having to see her everyday and hope that she would make it to reveal the brutal murder of her, her daughter Joy and her husband. It’s still fresh for some of us who will never be able to accept that it can not be solved.

    • Desi Anders says:

      Ann, you mentioned the house on Voncile is on the market. I rode by there the other day and noticed that. Are you a realtor?

  95. lalavel says:

    VERNON FOX: how dare you call the young girl who was murdered “an ugly little girl”? what a cruel thing to say about her and she was not ugly in the least. You are a real creep and piece of work. CREEPO!!!!!

  96. Hank Green says:

    In my many years of researching this case, I was able to ask many questions to which I was given answers to. Except for one question. And when I asked LCSO and SAO this question, the answer came back: “we can’t answer that.” That question is: “Was there a complaint of harassment or inappropriate conduct filed by the Sims family against Vernon Fox Jr.?” That question has always been met with elusiveness and mystery. If the answer to that question is “yes”, then a motive is firmly established. For this reason, I think this is what happened:

    1. Vernon Jr. behaved in a harassing or sexually explicit way toward Joy.

    2. Joy tells her parents. They tell authorities.

    3. Troubled and fearful for Joy, Helen Sims quits her job at the church to be able to stay home and keep a close eye on Joy. (Her being privy to Pastor Roberts’ philandering probably already made her uneasy about working there in the first place.)

    4. Vernon Jr. asks for Mary Charles’ help, telling her that this little girl has hatched a lie that could get him in serious trouble. They deride her together, calling her names. Calling her “ugly”.

    5. Obsessed with death, fueled by the vengeful cause of punishing Joy for her “lie”, and ultimately to protect Vernon Jr.’s future, they hatch a plan to kill Joy on a night where many people would either be at the FSU game or the fair.

    They probably made Joy watch them shoot her parents. I don’t think they did anything sexual to Joy. Mary Charles would have been way too jealous for that to happen. I think they held her down, probably used elements of torture. And then probably pulled her underwear down to humiliate or further deride her.

    • todd b greene says:

      I like your theory Hank Green. I wish Leon County would put more effort in this case. But I don’t think this will happen. Leon County Sheriff Dept is covering something up. Vernon Fox Sr. was a very prominent member of local society and I think that has something to do with that. A local lawyer (Jeremy Mutz) was very close to solving the case a few years ago, but was fired before he could finish. Somebody knows the truth. The good ole boy system at its finest.

  97. Diane Burch says:

    Wow that’s horrible. stuff of nightmares. How do you prevent that in your own community?
    Diane –

  98. nofool says:

    the female “suspect”, in clips i have seen watching the documentary 641 Muriel Court, does not sound like she is ever giving a first person account. she sounds like she is being lead by the investigators, surmising other things and regurgitating what is known. she also sounds like she is ready to go home and fabricate a more complete tale at the instigation of the police. they also don’t tell her that she will necessarily go to jail, and much discussion is had of “a hospital” so i believe that insinuations were made that she would get much different treatment than the male suspect if she fleshed out her story.

    so, i have no idea why the author of this otherwise good website is misdirecting on the truth here. i don’t know if the young couple did it, but it sounds like it is all rumour mill and “they seemed suspicious because they were weird”. there are a lot of weird people in the world, and probably only the same percentage of them is truly demented enough to commit a crime like this. probably the same percentage as those who seem “normal”. among many serial killers, they give no outward signs at all to those who know them of being “weird”.

    why are fingerprints mentioned as ruling out suspects and yet these are not mentioned with regard to the young couple? this is a telling detail and shows that either the prints don’t match, or the police aren’t even sure if those prints are from the criminals.

    i hate to tell you Tallahassee natives who keep posting on here, but you sound like the very people who drum up “guilty” parties in infamous wrongful conviction cases all along the Southern U.S. due the lack of social conformity in your favorite “suspects”, based on rumours and a kind of mass hysteria (witch hunt). this is why your criminal convictions are a joke to the rest of the country. perhaps try following the actual evidence of the crime, which is not fully laid out in this post for some reason. just a lot of suppositions about people who had changed their story about being at a movie, when they both had a very logical reason for doing so.

    • Pam Bohlen says:

      There are always going to be others with a different perspective or opinion. I respect your opinion but I also want to make a point from my perspective. There is a whole lot of other evidence that did not get posted to this site for different reasons. When Jeremy Mutz called me the first time after seeing some posts from me on this site we talked back and forth for a long time. Vernon is the one that started the conversations about his innocence. No one was bothering him or prosecuting him. He just interjected himself into this site while trying to get people to believe he was innocent of all of it after 50 years later. No one from the “Tallahassee Natives” were even aware of where he even lived. He didnt have to try to prove anything to anyone at that point. He loved the spotlight and attention that he was getting. He was on several sites debating back and forth whenever he got the chance. He relished in it. Why would you do that? I certainly wouldnt want to start reliving all that stuff or give them the satisfaction of giving me their opinions. I would want to try to leave it all behind and build myself a life away from all that. I believe that Jeremy had enough to charge them with the crime. He was fired because he got to close to something that was too close for comfort for someone. Jeremy had no reason to fabricate anything other than getting a closure and prosecuting the ‘weird and crazy ” couple that got away with murder and to continue to live their “weird and crazy” psychotic lives. My 13 year old friend and her parents did not and the bs that he tried to come up with is an insult to anyone with any kind of a brain. Do you really believe all that far fetched crazy ass stuff he threw out there? He ran off this site like the coward he is after he was running out of reasons and changed his stories 1 time too many. If you are interested in seeing some more about the crime, check out my facebook page “Justice for Joy ” and Pam Mock Bohlen is my page. Jeremy also was a guest on a podcast series if interested I’m not hiding from anyone or scared of anyone on here. But then I’m not a 13 year old girl. I will back Jeremy and his beliefs always.

  99. Shelvey Holland says:

    Was Dr. Robert W Sims the same man who had been principal of Meigs (GA) Elementary and High School about 1954? If so, at that time he was known as R. W. Sims and was my principal and math teacher in the 8th grade. He was a tall man and a man of excellence in every way. Could he ever spike a volleyball! I would love to be contacted by any member of his family to tell them what I think of this great man. My email address is Or I can be found on FB at Shelvey Holland.

    • Pam Bohlen says:

      His family were from out of state and the two daughters that survived changed their names so they could get some peace from it all. They did not stay in Tallahassee. Everyone that knew them loved and respected them all.

      • PossibleRelative says:

        I am very curious about the Sims family that are not mentioned. My mother’s maiden name is Sims. I know that side of the family has been very secretive about the past. Also, the family had some “weird ways” there had been affairs and molestation. Mental issues on that side of my family. Does anyone know the family history? My family was mostly from Ohio.

  100. todd b greene says:

    I drove by the house yesterday. Nothing much has changed since 1966. I notice the surrounding landscape and imagine an evil man lurking in the darkness. A happy family inside, behind unlocked doors. A playful little girl in her pajamas, getting ready for bed. It was a home invasion. Or they knew the Sims and were welcomed inside….Ah man, if the walls could talk. I want to know what happened on that cool October night in 1966. This case will always be a wonder to me. Also, I cant help but to wonder if the people living there now, know the history

    • Desiree' R. Anders says:

      I drove by the other day as well. I went inside the house a few years ago when it was for rent. I agree….if walls could talk. Still have hope that some day the remaining Sims girls will have justice.

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